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404337 Responseshttp://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/11/10/its-not-terrorism-if-the-us-military-does-it/It%27s+Not+Terrorism+If+the+US+Military+Does+It2007-11-11+04%3A55%3A53Tim+Swanson to “It’s Not Terrorism If the US Military Does It”
So a Fox News guy makes a stupid comment, so what? So that means that conservatives believe terrorism is ok if we do it against Muslims right? Come on, give me a break. You really think all Conservatives believe that, right? I thought you liberals and progressives don’t like stereotypes. Oh, unless its conservatives you are trying to villify, then sterotypes are ok, right?
Well, I don’t consider myself a conservative actually. I would think of myself as a moderate democrat, liberal on many social issues but conservative on national security matters, so I can’t speak for conservatives. But as far as I’m concerned, anytime any person or government intentionally targets innocent civilians in an attempt to bring about political change, yes that is terrorism. It does not matter who does it. But please pay very careful attention to the word “intentionally.” If the United States Air Force drops a bomb to try and eliminate Taliban fighters and innocent people are killed, that is a tragedy but it is not terrorism. What the Islamo Fascists do is intentional. They purposefully try to kill as many innoncent people as they can.
this is obviously sick and demented, but isn’t new. they frequently do this in the media. should we continue funding proxy terror in nicaragua, or should we see to it that people starve to death? should the CIA try to overthrow hussein, or should the US just continue to bomb iraq on a weekly basis for 17+ years? and it isn’t just fox. it’s the entire media. “liberal”, “conservative”, it doesn’t matter. it’s the same thing, they just have different constituencies. and anyone who believes in the supposed differences are living in the biggest fantasy world. they’re dedicated to terror as a means of dealing with people. they have been since the beginning of the country. it’s true everywhere. this is what the state, and powerful people — the ones with the money and the big guns — do. and it doesn’t look like anyone in 2008 is going to stop it. at least not anyone who has a chance. and that’s why they don’t have a chance.
they’ll continue to turn this place into a third world country, and they’ll keep killing people. and we’ll just sit here and argue and bluster and passionately denounce them.
This must be the Golden Age for American exceptionalism and hypocrisy – our President and Commander-in-Chief just told Gen Musharraf that Musharraf couldn’t be Pakistan’s chief executive and top military guy at the same time. Gee, is POTUS’s flight suit (and codpiece) now retired? No-one even commented upon the irony in that.
What is typically ignored or trivialized, however, is that one of the *major* corporations which own the “Evil Empire media” is Judaeo-Christianity, Inc., which is easily capable of censoring and suppressing any information which threatens its own economic survival.
A principal goal of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc. is its own self-preservation (it is not required to pay taxes, for example), which it maintains only by performing an important *function* to the state (because you ‘don’t get something for nothing’): the providing of a religious ‘justification’ for unspeakable acts of violence in defense of the state. And, clearly, the fundamental ‘justification’ for unspeakable violence against Muslims is *theological*.
Ultimately, it is not a person’s political beliefs; but, rather, a person’s beliefs concerning God and/or morality independent of politics which determine whether or not those acts will be committed in defense of the state.
And, were this ‘justification’ not so widely and readily provided by Judaeo-Christianity, Inc., the question is, of course, what *other* religious or moral ‘justification’ would be employed to salve the conscience of those who have agreed to defend the state.
sub-Human commented:
“In todays Evil Empire media is owned by Corporations which in turn OWN the state.”
The power and influence of large corporations are indeed frightening. Abe Lincoln’s vision has perished. “…..government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” (Gettysburg Address).
Sorry, but dropping a bomb on the “enemy” with the fore knowledge that there will be in all likelihood casualties of innocents meets your criteria for terrorism. To act as though dropping a bomb will somehow only kill your intended targets is to endow such an action with precision that simply does not exist. Therefore you either drop the bomb and accept that you will kill innocents and that is just the price you are willing to pay or you drop the bomb and simply don’t care who you kill as long as you get the “enemy”. In war time there is always this numbers game being played about how many of “them” we can kill. Since the enemy and the average civilian look the same, in Iraq, I am sure many more innocents then actual enemy have been killed. And to ignore this fact is simply ignoring the fact that we have intentionally killed people we assumed were the enemy without any credible evidence.
“So that means that conservatives believe terrorism is ok if we do it against Muslims right? Come on, give me a break. You really think all Conservatives believe that, right?”
Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Iraq had
no weapons of mass destruction. Iraq was not a threat
to America. Iraq is not now and never has been a threat
to America. America had no enemies in Iraq until President
Bush created them by invading their country. Therefore,
what we are doing in Iraq is terrorism writ large.
The Fox News fanatic in the clip is enraged by “our Humvees blowing up.” I didn’t hear any whimpering from the fanatic about Iraqi collateral casualties. What I did hear, though, is that the fanatic wants to kill Iranians because he’s frustrated by the inability of his stormtroopers to avoid being blown up by Iraqis. Thus, he engages in masturbatory fantasies involving the displacement of his frustration onto a group he very clearly hates.
I just want to mention Bush the father defending his president son’s terrorism worlwide.
Dad said one thing about the president that he removed Saddam,
The rest of US gov’t attrocities are simply irrelevant
I guess Dad is getting old and old age is affecting his memory.
The main purpose of invading Iraq isn’t oil, WMD, Terrorism, Saddam or democracy.
The main point and this is why almost all the western world has actually accepted the 911 version as Al Qaida terror plot, is to frame a vulnerable country invade it and destroy it completely then move to the next one.
Iran Syria Saudi Arabia then Egypt are all in line
The next prez will cary-out this task for the rest of the century
Remember Rumsfiled quote ” fighting multiple theatres.
Bush mission accomplished meaning we are in for decades to come
IT doesn’t take 5 years to train an Iraqi army.
and water and electricity are scarce
the civil war is on in Iraq and according to the very Iraqi it will take 50 years wether USA is there or out.
The middle east is already on a biblical catastophe.
Thanks to the zionist in congress and specialy AIPAC.
Pathetic — irate Bush Pappy says “Do you want Saddam Back!” You bet Bucky, if it will bring back 4,000 American soldiers, 100,000 mostly innocent Iraqis, ten times as many wounded, refugees and destruction, a trillion or so dollars, and a large loss of personal liberty in this country. Yeah, I’d trade back. Saddam wasn’t that big of a deal.
Bush reminds me of the old story of the drunk, enraged by a mouse in his house who goes after it with a shotgun. He gets the mouse eventually, but the house is in ruins.
Faux and Friends is an excellent source for a good laugh. I am unable to watch those early morning ‘fools’ because within 3 minutes of the start of the program,at least one of them will deliberately lie to the viewers.
Also please forgive Brian Kilmead or whatever the hell his name is. At times I think that he is the ‘Gabby Hayes’ of the program because Doocy!! or one of the others always have to distract(of course with more meaningless garbage) from his consistant daily fumbles………
If it were not for the Jewish and Christian faiths (Judeo Christianity) we would not have Western Civilization as we know it. I guess for you medieval Islamic barbarism is just fine and dandy! Well, call me old fashioned and crazy but I would choose Judaism or Christianity over the brutal and barbaric cultures of most Muslim nations. You know what is really ironic? All the folks who complain about “Christian fundamentalism” and how dangerous it is, people like Rosie O’Donnel, where do they all live? In countries that follow the Judeo-Christian model! If they were not full of crap they would be living in Muslim countries but yet they stay here. Why? Actions speak louder than words.
Tim – as an American born Muslim, I’m getting tired of people inventing concepts and new words – there’s no such thing as “Islamo Fascists.” That’s pure invention. Your words and the behavior of the US is much closer to fascism. Islam is a religion, and the root word is “peace and submission to God,” not to a dictator. The political ideology of fascism is completely incompatible with the faith, regardless of what you think. This is precisely how Hitler convinced his society to support him; first by mixing politics and relgion, second by taking advantage of people’s limited knowledge, third by getting an unsuspecting nation to espouse the boogie man myth, and then going on a power grab and killing spree. Welcome to the Neo Third Reich. You are a willing full member.
Kilmead is truly an idiot. He once said that the war on Christmas was going to make it impossible to display Christian symbols like Frosty the Snowman.
However, his idiocy does not excuse his support for terrorism.
Seeing that the so-called “Western Civilization” have been killing each other (and others outside their sphere of influence) like it’s going out of fashion for the past century or so, it’s a bit ironic you’re calling us Muslims “barbaric” and “brutal”. Quoting Gandhi when asked about his opinion on the Western Civilization: “I think it’s a good idea”.
Maybe it’s just me, but “collateral damage” and “extraordinary rendition” is just as bad as hanging homosexuals with a crane. While I deplore and despair over the evils being committed in the name of Islam, sanctimonious holier-than-thou Judeo-Christian preacher-cum-whoremonger doesn’t exactly appeal to my tastes, either.
Abe Lincoln’s vision has perished. “…..government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” (Gettysburg Address).
Abe Lincoln was the direct ancestor of today’s neocon warmongers, so you might want to consider another choice of example to reinforce your point (one that I know you intended to be well-meaning).
Ray, yes, Islam is a religion but it is anything other than peaceful! Unless the “peace” you talk of is spelled “piece” as in pieces of bodies being blown up by Islamic terrorists. Sadly, my country suffers from a disease called Political Correctness. Therefore we have to pretend that all religions are good and peaceful and none is better than the other. Well, that’s a bunch of poppycock! If Islam is a peaceful religion I am certainly not convinced.
Big surprise, what will we discover next? the sky the blue?
US and Iran are the same kind: violent and ruled by an idiot. For the rest of the world though, Iran only talks of their idiocy, Americans put their idiocy to action.
Tim R.
November 10th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
So a Fox News guy makes a stupid comment, so what? So that means that conservatives believe terrorism is ok if we do it against Muslims right? Come on, give me a break. You really think all Conservatives believe that, right? I thought you liberals and progressives don’t like stereotypes. Oh, unless its conservatives you are trying to villify, then sterotypes are ok, right?
Well, I don’t consider myself a conservative actually. I would think of myself as a moderate democrat, liberal on many social issues but conservative on national security matters, so I can’t speak for conservatives. But as far as I’m concerned, anytime any person or government intentionally targets innocent civilians in an attempt to bring about political change, yes that is terrorism. It does not matter who does it. But please pay very careful attention to the word “intentionally.” If the United States Air Force drops a bomb to try and eliminate Taliban fighters and innocent people are killed, that is a tragedy but it is not terrorism. What the Islamo Fascists do is intentional. They purposefully try to kill as many innoncent people as they can.
Spyfor
November 11th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Truly horrific. We must be nuts to keep putting up with this. I’m breaking out the pitch-forks and torches. See you on the village green…
Michael in Cleveland
November 11th, 2007 at 12:29 am
Sick.
steph
November 11th, 2007 at 12:38 am
this is obviously sick and demented, but isn’t new. they frequently do this in the media. should we continue funding proxy terror in nicaragua, or should we see to it that people starve to death? should the CIA try to overthrow hussein, or should the US just continue to bomb iraq on a weekly basis for 17+ years? and it isn’t just fox. it’s the entire media. “liberal”, “conservative”, it doesn’t matter. it’s the same thing, they just have different constituencies. and anyone who believes in the supposed differences are living in the biggest fantasy world. they’re dedicated to terror as a means of dealing with people. they have been since the beginning of the country. it’s true everywhere. this is what the state, and powerful people — the ones with the money and the big guns — do. and it doesn’t look like anyone in 2008 is going to stop it. at least not anyone who has a chance. and that’s why they don’t have a chance.
they’ll continue to turn this place into a third world country, and they’ll keep killing people. and we’ll just sit here and argue and bluster and passionately denounce them.
subHuman
November 11th, 2007 at 2:43 am
In the last Evil Empire media was owned by the state.
In todays Evil Empire media is owned by Corporations which in turn OWN the state.
It is expected they be promoting their agenda.
There were no nazi war criminals as long as they remaind in power either.
richard vajs
November 11th, 2007 at 6:41 am
This must be the Golden Age for American exceptionalism and hypocrisy – our President and Commander-in-Chief just told Gen Musharraf that Musharraf couldn’t be Pakistan’s chief executive and top military guy at the same time. Gee, is POTUS’s flight suit (and codpiece) now retired? No-one even commented upon the irony in that.
Michael Cecil
November 11th, 2007 at 6:59 am
“…Evil Empire media is owned by Corporations…”
Of course.
What is typically ignored or trivialized, however, is that one of the *major* corporations which own the “Evil Empire media” is Judaeo-Christianity, Inc., which is easily capable of censoring and suppressing any information which threatens its own economic survival.
A principal goal of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc. is its own self-preservation (it is not required to pay taxes, for example), which it maintains only by performing an important *function* to the state (because you ‘don’t get something for nothing’): the providing of a religious ‘justification’ for unspeakable acts of violence in defense of the state. And, clearly, the fundamental ‘justification’ for unspeakable violence against Muslims is *theological*.
Ultimately, it is not a person’s political beliefs; but, rather, a person’s beliefs concerning God and/or morality independent of politics which determine whether or not those acts will be committed in defense of the state.
And, were this ‘justification’ not so widely and readily provided by Judaeo-Christianity, Inc., the question is, of course, what *other* religious or moral ‘justification’ would be employed to salve the conscience of those who have agreed to defend the state.
Michael Cecil
http://unsealing-the-seven-seals.blogspot.com/
musafir
November 11th, 2007 at 8:34 am
sub-Human commented:
“In todays Evil Empire media is owned by Corporations which in turn OWN the state.”
The power and influence of large corporations are indeed frightening. Abe Lincoln’s vision has perished. “…..government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” (Gettysburg Address).
OS
November 11th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Sorry, but dropping a bomb on the “enemy” with the fore knowledge that there will be in all likelihood casualties of innocents meets your criteria for terrorism. To act as though dropping a bomb will somehow only kill your intended targets is to endow such an action with precision that simply does not exist. Therefore you either drop the bomb and accept that you will kill innocents and that is just the price you are willing to pay or you drop the bomb and simply don’t care who you kill as long as you get the “enemy”. In war time there is always this numbers game being played about how many of “them” we can kill. Since the enemy and the average civilian look the same, in Iraq, I am sure many more innocents then actual enemy have been killed. And to ignore this fact is simply ignoring the fact that we have intentionally killed people we assumed were the enemy without any credible evidence.
timristupid
November 11th, 2007 at 10:08 am
So a Fox News guy makes a stupid comment, so what? So that means that conservatives believe terrorism is ok if we do it against Muslims right?
If that had been Al Jazeera and it was about Israel you’d be screaming like mad for Al Jazeera to be bombed.
pete
November 11th, 2007 at 11:06 am
“So that means that conservatives believe terrorism is ok if we do it against Muslims right? Come on, give me a break. You really think all Conservatives believe that, right?”
yes. yes i do.
Colonel_Khadafis_Fried_Chadian
November 11th, 2007 at 11:20 am
For the last time we are LIBERTARIANS!
Vopat
November 11th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Yes I do think all conservatives on National Security issues are terrorists.
Jack Dennon
November 11th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Iraq had
no weapons of mass destruction. Iraq was not a threat
to America. Iraq is not now and never has been a threat
to America. America had no enemies in Iraq until President
Bush created them by invading their country. Therefore,
what we are doing in Iraq is terrorism writ large.
timmystinythingy
November 11th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Timmy,
The Fox News fanatic in the clip is enraged by “our Humvees blowing up.” I didn’t hear any whimpering from the fanatic about Iraqi collateral casualties. What I did hear, though, is that the fanatic wants to kill Iranians because he’s frustrated by the inability of his stormtroopers to avoid being blown up by Iraqis. Thus, he engages in masturbatory fantasies involving the displacement of his frustration onto a group he very clearly hates.
joan
November 11th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Tim…put down the bottle, sober up, grow up, wise up!
Bonky
November 11th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
I just want to mention Bush the father defending his president son’s terrorism worlwide.
Dad said one thing about the president that he removed Saddam,
The rest of US gov’t attrocities are simply irrelevant
I guess Dad is getting old and old age is affecting his memory.
Bonky
November 11th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
The main purpose of invading Iraq isn’t oil, WMD, Terrorism, Saddam or democracy.
The main point and this is why almost all the western world has actually accepted the 911 version as Al Qaida terror plot, is to frame a vulnerable country invade it and destroy it completely then move to the next one.
Iran Syria Saudi Arabia then Egypt are all in line
The next prez will cary-out this task for the rest of the century
Remember Rumsfiled quote ” fighting multiple theatres.
Bush mission accomplished meaning we are in for decades to come
IT doesn’t take 5 years to train an Iraqi army.
and water and electricity are scarce
the civil war is on in Iraq and according to the very Iraqi it will take 50 years wether USA is there or out.
The middle east is already on a biblical catastophe.
Thanks to the zionist in congress and specialy AIPAC.
Marycatherine Barton
November 11th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Except for the one troll, thank you all so-much for the powerful, thought-provoking, though heartbreaking, comments about this crudity from Fox News.
Geoffi
November 11th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Oh…my…god…
phil
November 11th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Intelligent analysis as always on “Fascists And Friends”.
Blonde Bimbo, Nervous Nellie Military Guy and “Stupid Young Guy Who Never Served”.
Now thats great TV journalism at its best.
Whats really sad is that people actually believe this stuff from these ignorant jackasses.
the $50 is the new $20
November 11th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Someone call the Hague
I’m pretty sure what that guy did on TV (calling for the US to underwrite and support acts of terrorism in Iran) is a war crime.
richard vajs
November 11th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Pathetic — irate Bush Pappy says “Do you want Saddam Back!” You bet Bucky, if it will bring back 4,000 American soldiers, 100,000 mostly innocent Iraqis, ten times as many wounded, refugees and destruction, a trillion or so dollars, and a large loss of personal liberty in this country. Yeah, I’d trade back. Saddam wasn’t that big of a deal.
Bush reminds me of the old story of the drunk, enraged by a mouse in his house who goes after it with a shotgun. He gets the mouse eventually, but the house is in ruins.
Mars
November 11th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Faux and Friends is an excellent source for a good laugh. I am unable to watch those early morning ‘fools’ because within 3 minutes of the start of the program,at least one of them will deliberately lie to the viewers.
Also please forgive Brian Kilmead or whatever the hell his name is. At times I think that he is the ‘Gabby Hayes’ of the program because Doocy!! or one of the others always have to distract(of course with more meaningless garbage) from his consistant daily fumbles………
Jim
November 11th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
exactly, it’s part of the mindset of “with us or against us”..
Jim
November 11th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
I love seeing his expression after the feed gets cut.. like a little kid who knows he’s in trouble.. and she covers with the weather comment.. haha.
Tim R.
November 11th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
If it were not for the Jewish and Christian faiths (Judeo Christianity) we would not have Western Civilization as we know it. I guess for you medieval Islamic barbarism is just fine and dandy! Well, call me old fashioned and crazy but I would choose Judaism or Christianity over the brutal and barbaric cultures of most Muslim nations. You know what is really ironic? All the folks who complain about “Christian fundamentalism” and how dangerous it is, people like Rosie O’Donnel, where do they all live? In countries that follow the Judeo-Christian model! If they were not full of crap they would be living in Muslim countries but yet they stay here. Why? Actions speak louder than words.
G5
November 12th, 2007 at 12:15 am
Don’t you mean neo-conservative on our security matters?
Ray
November 12th, 2007 at 5:56 am
Tim – as an American born Muslim, I’m getting tired of people inventing concepts and new words – there’s no such thing as “Islamo Fascists.” That’s pure invention. Your words and the behavior of the US is much closer to fascism. Islam is a religion, and the root word is “peace and submission to God,” not to a dictator. The political ideology of fascism is completely incompatible with the faith, regardless of what you think. This is precisely how Hitler convinced his society to support him; first by mixing politics and relgion, second by taking advantage of people’s limited knowledge, third by getting an unsuspecting nation to espouse the boogie man myth, and then going on a power grab and killing spree. Welcome to the Neo Third Reich. You are a willing full member.
Michael Cecil
November 12th, 2007 at 6:29 am
“Someone call the Hague.”
Been there, done that.
Sort of.
The response was that, to file a complaint, you must be a *country* in order to have any legal standing.
A country rather than an individual would have to file a claim with the Hague.
But this, of course, was of NO help whatsoever when Lebanon accused Israel of war crimes in the Lebanon war of 2006 for bombing so many civilians.
It also depends upon *what* country you are.
Michael Cecil
Svensker
November 12th, 2007 at 8:35 am
Kilmead is truly an idiot. He once said that the war on Christmas was going to make it impossible to display Christian symbols like Frosty the Snowman.
However, his idiocy does not excuse his support for terrorism.
Amry
November 12th, 2007 at 8:39 am
Seeing that the so-called “Western Civilization” have been killing each other (and others outside their sphere of influence) like it’s going out of fashion for the past century or so, it’s a bit ironic you’re calling us Muslims “barbaric” and “brutal”. Quoting Gandhi when asked about his opinion on the Western Civilization: “I think it’s a good idea”.
Maybe it’s just me, but “collateral damage” and “extraordinary rendition” is just as bad as hanging homosexuals with a crane. While I deplore and despair over the evils being committed in the name of Islam, sanctimonious holier-than-thou Judeo-Christian preacher-cum-whoremonger doesn’t exactly appeal to my tastes, either.
liberranter
November 12th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Abe Lincoln’s vision has perished. “…..government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” (Gettysburg Address).
Abe Lincoln was the direct ancestor of today’s neocon warmongers, so you might want to consider another choice of example to reinforce your point (one that I know you intended to be well-meaning).
Tim R.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Ray, yes, Islam is a religion but it is anything other than peaceful! Unless the “peace” you talk of is spelled “piece” as in pieces of bodies being blown up by Islamic terrorists. Sadly, my country suffers from a disease called Political Correctness. Therefore we have to pretend that all religions are good and peaceful and none is better than the other. Well, that’s a bunch of poppycock! If Islam is a peaceful religion I am certainly not convinced.
ray
November 12th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Tim – you’re right – I need to convert to Christianity right away and learn how to really spread the piece! God bless!
iewgnem
November 13th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Big surprise, what will we discover next? the sky the blue?
US and Iran are the same kind: violent and ruled by an idiot. For the rest of the world though, Iran only talks of their idiocy, Americans put their idiocy to action.
phil
November 13th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
If that had been Al Jazeera and it was about Israel you’d be screaming like mad for Al Jazeera to be bombed.
How do you spell “Dual Loyalist”? Tim needs to join the service and defend his borders.