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	<title>Comments on: The Neocons: An Illustrated Progression</title>
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		<title>By: FirstCasualty</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-119170</link>
		<dc:creator>FirstCasualty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 05:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-119170</guid>
		<description>Why would it raise that question at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would it raise that question at all?</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene Costa</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-118785</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene Costa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Whatever you say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever you say.</p>
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		<title>By: Stanley Laham</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-118620</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Laham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-118620</guid>
		<description>So unacquainted with history??
Pretended moral outrage?? 

Such totally baseless pontificating and lashing out are the symptoms of the failed &quot;prima dona&quot; syndrom. Go have a session with your analyst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So unacquainted with history??<br />
Pretended moral outrage?? </p>
<p>Such totally baseless pontificating and lashing out are the symptoms of the failed &#8220;prima dona&#8221; syndrom. Go have a session with your analyst.</p>
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		<title>By: Stanley Laham</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-118616</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Laham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-118616</guid>
		<description>Cfountain72
I am really not trying to present a case for communism. Just emphasizing its acute differences with capitalism and their motives.

The Philippines chain was essential in controlling the sea lanes for vital commerce. It was an essential as a base in the Pacific. That of course is why the Japanese empire zeroed in on its conquest and later its defense at all cost. They never bothered to invade Hawaii that laid beyond the operational radius of the time with the weapons of war available at the time. 

The Philippines were also an agricultural paradise that Americans quickly took over from the former Spanish masters. Enormous wealth was derived from these plantations. As Fidel Castro aptly pointed out: “Cuba and the Philippines were ripe fruits ready to fall off Spain’s colonial tree into the mouth of the Yankees.”

Do a little reseach into the insurgency that followed the US&#039;s &quot;liberation&quot; of the Philippines.

Peace and health be with you too brother/sister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cfountain72<br />
I am really not trying to present a case for communism. Just emphasizing its acute differences with capitalism and their motives.</p>
<p>The Philippines chain was essential in controlling the sea lanes for vital commerce. It was an essential as a base in the Pacific. That of course is why the Japanese empire zeroed in on its conquest and later its defense at all cost. They never bothered to invade Hawaii that laid beyond the operational radius of the time with the weapons of war available at the time. </p>
<p>The Philippines were also an agricultural paradise that Americans quickly took over from the former Spanish masters. Enormous wealth was derived from these plantations. As Fidel Castro aptly pointed out: “Cuba and the Philippines were ripe fruits ready to fall off Spain’s colonial tree into the mouth of the Yankees.”</p>
<p>Do a little reseach into the insurgency that followed the US&#8217;s &#8220;liberation&#8221; of the Philippines.</p>
<p>Peace and health be with you too brother/sister.</p>
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		<title>By: dani.a</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-118179</link>
		<dc:creator>dani.a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-118179</guid>
		<description>kristol is so stupid and so false.when a state invests in army is said always that it does it to improve its defensive capacity.such ,improving all the time is defensive capacity the state should become,according with kristol,imperialistic.therefore the nature of a state is defensive-imperialist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kristol is so stupid and so false.when a state invests in army is said always that it does it to improve its defensive capacity.such ,improving all the time is defensive capacity the state should become,according with kristol,imperialistic.therefore the nature of a state is defensive-imperialist.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene Costa</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-118089</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene Costa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 07:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-118089</guid>
		<description>You have it backwards, and I know my Herods.

It is quite easy to explain it all to a civilized nation, secular and urbane, literally decimated by the United States.

The Americans are barbarians, like the Mongols, and will soon pass.

Besides destruction what do they have to offer except force and death, and killing civilians, even women and children at a distance, because they are so few in number, and so fearful of death, that they cannot afford killed in action and casualties.

Or are you so unacquainted with history not to realize that much technology, even as with the Mongols, is often invented or mastered in new ways by barbarians.

Unlike the Mongols, however, the American troops, in the way they fight, have also proved themselves cowards.

And what imperium do you know that is run by cowards, except over other cowards?

That explanation, which is partial, will have to do for the nonce.

Go back to your misreading, your pretended moral outrage, and your jumping to easy ideological conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have it backwards, and I know my Herods.</p>
<p>It is quite easy to explain it all to a civilized nation, secular and urbane, literally decimated by the United States.</p>
<p>The Americans are barbarians, like the Mongols, and will soon pass.</p>
<p>Besides destruction what do they have to offer except force and death, and killing civilians, even women and children at a distance, because they are so few in number, and so fearful of death, that they cannot afford killed in action and casualties.</p>
<p>Or are you so unacquainted with history not to realize that much technology, even as with the Mongols, is often invented or mastered in new ways by barbarians.</p>
<p>Unlike the Mongols, however, the American troops, in the way they fight, have also proved themselves cowards.</p>
<p>And what imperium do you know that is run by cowards, except over other cowards?</p>
<p>That explanation, which is partial, will have to do for the nonce.</p>
<p>Go back to your misreading, your pretended moral outrage, and your jumping to easy ideological conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Stanley Laham</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-118027</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Laham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 05:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-118027</guid>
		<description>I would like you to explain to those Iraqis grieving for over a million of their kins blown to bits, buried alive, incinerated with napalm, poisoned with depleted uranium, starved to death or gunned down at intersections routinely, while the so-called civilized world participated or complicitly turned the other way, that there is no such thing as the American empire. 

Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are occupied territories. Their monarchies were created as mere facades for western oil companies. They are the Herods of the Roman empire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like you to explain to those Iraqis grieving for over a million of their kins blown to bits, buried alive, incinerated with napalm, poisoned with depleted uranium, starved to death or gunned down at intersections routinely, while the so-called civilized world participated or complicitly turned the other way, that there is no such thing as the American empire. </p>
<p>Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are occupied territories. Their monarchies were created as mere facades for western oil companies. They are the Herods of the Roman empire.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene Costa</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-117880</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene Costa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 02:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-117880</guid>
		<description>Indeed--the Lieberman of the Gore and Lieberman ticket, is it not?

It may or may not ever dawn on Gore to thank his lucky stars that he was not elected president.

After all, not only has he got a Nobel Prize, but he was not assassinated in office.

Imagine the war in the Near East that would have ensued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed&#8211;the Lieberman of the Gore and Lieberman ticket, is it not?</p>
<p>It may or may not ever dawn on Gore to thank his lucky stars that he was not elected president.</p>
<p>After all, not only has he got a Nobel Prize, but he was not assassinated in office.</p>
<p>Imagine the war in the Near East that would have ensued.</p>
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		<title>By: real_democrat</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-117827</link>
		<dc:creator>real_democrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-117827</guid>
		<description>Joseph Lieberman was left out of list of &quot;The Committee on the Present Danger&quot;. As Honorary Co-Chair of this organized paranoia creation machine, he is hard to miss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph Lieberman was left out of list of &#8220;The Committee on the Present Danger&#8221;. As Honorary Co-Chair of this organized paranoia creation machine, he is hard to miss.</p>
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		<title>By: cfountain72</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-117794</link>
		<dc:creator>cfountain72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-117794</guid>
		<description>Kristol confessed to a deep yearning for an American empire: “What’s the point of being the greatest, most powerful nation in the world and not having an imperial role? It’s unheard of in human history. The most powerful nation always had an imperial role.” 

I must admit I had to look that one up to maek sure it was legit. That is, as another reader said, utterly vile. Before the US came along, the most powerful nation always had an emperor/king/fuhrer...so what? Many of our ancestors came here to get away from all the squabbling and poverty and oppression of Europe. Liberty is the highest ideal, and a nation that can provide that to its citizens is &#039;the point&#039; that Kristol seems unable to grasp. Searching for monsters to slay abroad should hold no appeal to Americans truly interested in liberty or prosperity.

Peace be with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristol confessed to a deep yearning for an American empire: “What’s the point of being the greatest, most powerful nation in the world and not having an imperial role? It’s unheard of in human history. The most powerful nation always had an imperial role.” </p>
<p>I must admit I had to look that one up to maek sure it was legit. That is, as another reader said, utterly vile. Before the US came along, the most powerful nation always had an emperor/king/fuhrer&#8230;so what? Many of our ancestors came here to get away from all the squabbling and poverty and oppression of Europe. Liberty is the highest ideal, and a nation that can provide that to its citizens is &#8216;the point&#8217; that Kristol seems unable to grasp. Searching for monsters to slay abroad should hold no appeal to Americans truly interested in liberty or prosperity.</p>
<p>Peace be with you.</p>
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		<title>By: cfountain72</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-117762</link>
		<dc:creator>cfountain72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-117762</guid>
		<description>Stanley,

I am not sure that your analysis is entirely accurate. Indeed, in Iraq as well as Afghanistan (in both of our misadventures there), it is safe to say that net/net, we are spending far more than we are taking in. 

With respect to the Philipines, please tell me again what great natural resource are we getting from that chain of tropical islands?

The fact that the USSR was forced to subsidize its &#039;less fortunate&#039; client states (weren&#039;t they all less fortunate?) points to the abject failure that was Communism. Contrary to your implication, I would choose private &#039;business&#039; over collectivist &#039;principle and ideology&#039; everytime.

None of this is in any way meant to justify the inherent evils of imperialism. Nations and their peoples should certainly be allowed self-determination. Even though we would love to see contitutional republics the world over, citizens must come to that conclusion on their own and not at the  open end of gun. We certainly can not and should not force that ideal upon them.

Peace be with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stanley,</p>
<p>I am not sure that your analysis is entirely accurate. Indeed, in Iraq as well as Afghanistan (in both of our misadventures there), it is safe to say that net/net, we are spending far more than we are taking in. </p>
<p>With respect to the Philipines, please tell me again what great natural resource are we getting from that chain of tropical islands?</p>
<p>The fact that the USSR was forced to subsidize its &#8216;less fortunate&#8217; client states (weren&#8217;t they all less fortunate?) points to the abject failure that was Communism. Contrary to your implication, I would choose private &#8216;business&#8217; over collectivist &#8216;principle and ideology&#8217; everytime.</p>
<p>None of this is in any way meant to justify the inherent evils of imperialism. Nations and their peoples should certainly be allowed self-determination. Even though we would love to see contitutional republics the world over, citizens must come to that conclusion on their own and not at the  open end of gun. We certainly can not and should not force that ideal upon them.</p>
<p>Peace be with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene Costa</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/comment-page-1/#comment-117529</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene Costa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/02/03/the-neocons-an-illustrated-progression/#comment-117529</guid>
		<description>The only imperium the United States has ever successfully managed is the empire of the Federal government, dominated by a small and incompetent elite, over the States and Territories that are the United States itself, as well as over conquered people like the Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, and various and sundry Amerindian tribes.

How much of this territory was in fact purchased, like Louisiana and Alaska? Or entered the United States as the secession of entities, like California or Texas, from another sham &quot;empire&quot; to the South, Mexico?

These states and territories are indeed the true provinces of the Federal Imperialists, who tax them as subjects, draft and otherwise raise armies among them, impose and arbitrate their law, and now claim also the right to prohibit their secession from a &quot;Union&quot; that is forced and often tyrannical.

What then of the supposed &quot;imperium&quot; abroad?

That supposed &quot;empire&quot; abroad is mostly the myth and play-acting of the same national elite.

Far from being provinciae in the ancient Roman sense, these areas outside United States territory proper, instead of being dominated and taxed, drain the blood and treasure of the domestic subjects, so that a Clinton or a Bush, a Roosevelt or a Wilson, can act out the sham of being world &quot;imperialists&quot;, which role they play as incompetently as they manage the financial and economic affairs of the genuine empire at home.

Despite having putatively the most advanced military technology in the world, what did the supposed American imperial armies accomplish in Korea and Vietnam, and what are they accomplishing in Iraq and Afghanistan, save the killing of vast numbers of foreign civilians and the bankruptcy of the empire&#039;s subjects at home?

Looked at in the cold light of a short winter day, is the United States really a serious military power on the world stage?

Only if military might means destruction without conquest.

The myth of American empire abroad is rooted in World War I, which the intervention of the United States supposedly won single-handedly.

That myth is itself ungrounded in fact, but even were it true, what did the United States gain by the supposed victory save another worse and more expensive war in World War II?

Did United States win that war single-handedly as well?  That again is the myth enshrined among the domestic subjects, but in  fact that war was won in Europe in alliance with another very similar &quot;empire&quot;, the Soviet Union.

Did the United States in the Far East singlehandedly defeat Imperial Japan and win the war in the Pacific?  Again that is the myth, but there too this was a partnership with another empty and decrepit empire, China, which, as any objective student of military history will tell you, did the real damage to the Japanese Army, despite horrendous losses of its own.

On the basis of two such fragile and close victories, the national elite claimed world power, and the myth was swallowed hook, line and sinker by the real imperial subjects, Americans at home.

Do the imperial play actors now have clientela around the world?

Indeed, they seem to, but clients who are well paid to accord the Federal elite every trapping of imperialists without any of the substance.

Worse, at least one client, Israel, considers the status of ally mainly an instrument to bleed the real empire and its people, the United States proper, of its men and money and in the interests of its own foreign policy in the Middle East.

And another ally, Egypt, is only too happy to play the same game, getting almost as much treasure as the Israelis.

But we are still not at the bottom of the barrel.

What was the first Gulf War but the renting out of the Federal Empire&#039;s troops and military might to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, again supposed imperial clients, but in the end tails wagging the straw dog of the American sham imperium--in part no doubt so that someone like  Bill Buckley can act the part of British Victorian deciding fates in the Philippines.

The old Soviet Empire, having come to final grief in Afghanistan, had at least a small, clear-headed elite of Russian patriots who realized the emptiness and cost of empty empire.

Given the chance to get off their end of the seesaw, they took it, and, after some initial difficulty, prosper.

In the process, they left the expensive and disastrous title, &quot;the world&#039;s only remaining Superpower&quot; to the morons of the American Federal elite, and their gulled, overworked, increasingly impoverished and diseased imperial subjects at home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only imperium the United States has ever successfully managed is the empire of the Federal government, dominated by a small and incompetent elite, over the States and Territories that are the United States itself, as well as over conquered people like the Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, and various and sundry Amerindian tribes.</p>
<p>How much of this territory was in fact purchased, like Louisiana and Alaska? Or entered the United States as the secession of entities, like California or Texas, from another sham &#8220;empire&#8221; to the South, Mexico?</p>
<p>These states and territories are indeed the true provinces of the Federal Imperialists, who tax them as subjects, draft and otherwise raise armies among them, impose and arbitrate their law, and now claim also the right to prohibit their secession from a &#8220;Union&#8221; that is forced and often tyrannical.</p>
<p>What then of the supposed &#8220;imperium&#8221; abroad?</p>
<p>That supposed &#8220;empire&#8221; abroad is mostly the myth and play-acting of the same national elite.</p>
<p>Far from being provinciae in the ancient Roman sense, these areas outside United States territory proper, instead of being dominated and taxed, drain the blood and treasure of the domestic subjects, so that a Clinton or a Bush, a Roosevelt or a Wilson, can act out the sham of being world &#8220;imperialists&#8221;, which role they play as incompetently as they manage the financial and economic affairs of the genuine empire at home.</p>
<p>Despite having putatively the most advanced military technology in the world, what did the supposed American imperial armies accomplish in Korea and Vietnam, and what are they accomplishing in Iraq and Afghanistan, save the killing of vast numbers of foreign civilians and the bankruptcy of the empire&#8217;s subjects at home?</p>
<p>Looked at in the cold light of a short winter day, is the United States really a serious military power on the world stage?</p>
<p>Only if military might means destruction without conquest.</p>
<p>The myth of American empire abroad is rooted in World War I, which the intervention of the United States supposedly won single-handedly.</p>
<p>That myth is itself ungrounded in fact, but even were it true, what did the United States gain by the supposed victory save another worse and more expensive war in World War II?</p>
<p>Did United States win that war single-handedly as well?  That again is the myth enshrined among the domestic subjects, but in  fact that war was won in Europe in alliance with another very similar &#8220;empire&#8221;, the Soviet Union.</p>
<p>Did the United States in the Far East singlehandedly defeat Imperial Japan and win the war in the Pacific?  Again that is the myth, but there too this was a partnership with another empty and decrepit empire, China, which, as any objective student of military history will tell you, did the real damage to the Japanese Army, despite horrendous losses of its own.</p>
<p>On the basis of two such fragile and close victories, the national elite claimed world power, and the myth was swallowed hook, line and sinker by the real imperial subjects, Americans at home.</p>
<p>Do the imperial play actors now have clientela around the world?</p>
<p>Indeed, they seem to, but clients who are well paid to accord the Federal elite every trapping of imperialists without any of the substance.</p>
<p>Worse, at least one client, Israel, considers the status of ally mainly an instrument to bleed the real empire and its people, the United States proper, of its men and money and in the interests of its own foreign policy in the Middle East.</p>
<p>And another ally, Egypt, is only too happy to play the same game, getting almost as much treasure as the Israelis.</p>
<p>But we are still not at the bottom of the barrel.</p>
<p>What was the first Gulf War but the renting out of the Federal Empire&#8217;s troops and military might to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, again supposed imperial clients, but in the end tails wagging the straw dog of the American sham imperium&#8211;in part no doubt so that someone like  Bill Buckley can act the part of British Victorian deciding fates in the Philippines.</p>
<p>The old Soviet Empire, having come to final grief in Afghanistan, had at least a small, clear-headed elite of Russian patriots who realized the emptiness and cost of empty empire.</p>
<p>Given the chance to get off their end of the seesaw, they took it, and, after some initial difficulty, prosper.</p>
<p>In the process, they left the expensive and disastrous title, &#8220;the world&#8217;s only remaining Superpower&#8221; to the morons of the American Federal elite, and their gulled, overworked, increasingly impoverished and diseased imperial subjects at home.</p>
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