Comments on: Ron Paul on the Surveillance Bill http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/ Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:18:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Joseph Marzullo http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-149557 Joseph Marzullo Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:48:19 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-149557 Capitalism, the cause? ha. America has a mixed economy, you socialist douche. Even China is more capitalistic than America. More of your commie propaganda, eh? Capitalism, the cause? ha. America has a mixed economy, you socialist douche. Even China is more capitalistic than America. More of your commie propaganda, eh?

]]> By: DT http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142753 DT Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:49:40 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142753 I'm not an American, so as far as I'm concerned you can have whatever Constitution and liberties you choose. But I'll take issue with your military galavanting around the globe, no question. Which is beside the point. My point is that is that a philosophy based on the politics of one man (even so principled a man as Dr. Paul) is a distraction from the real issues. Peace (and liberty, non-interventionism, you name it) are values that transcend your parochial devotion to one Republican politician and his prescriptions. One of the strengths of Antiwar.com is its consistent, bipartisan focus on opposition to war. The weakness of the antiwar movement is that it is divided along theoretical lines. Some will say that capitalism is the cause of war, others will blame the welfare state. So long as the movement is confined to swallowing either of these philoophies wholesale, it will remain divided and distracted by tangents. Personally, I think it is a lethal cocktail of big business and big government which perpetuates the War State as we currently know it. But so long as your country (and mine) are killing civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm not going to wait around for you to agree with this. But, if you are antiwar, and favour an immediate withdrawal of our troops, then I will ask you to "honk" your horns in support. It's pretty simple, really. I’m not an American, so as far as I’m concerned you can have whatever Constitution and liberties you choose. But I’ll take issue with your military galavanting around the globe, no question.

Which is beside the point. My point is that is that a philosophy based on the politics of one man (even so principled a man as Dr. Paul) is a distraction from the real issues. Peace (and liberty, non-interventionism, you name it) are values that transcend your parochial devotion to one Republican politician and his prescriptions.

One of the strengths of Antiwar.com is its consistent, bipartisan focus on opposition to war. The weakness of the antiwar movement is that it is divided along theoretical lines. Some will say that capitalism is the cause of war, others will blame the welfare state. So long as the movement is confined to swallowing either of these philoophies wholesale, it will remain divided and distracted by tangents.

Personally, I think it is a lethal cocktail of big business and big government which perpetuates the War State as we currently know it. But so long as your country (and mine) are killing civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, I’m not going to wait around for you to agree with this. But, if you are antiwar, and favour an immediate withdrawal of our troops, then I will ask you to “honk” your horns in support.

It’s pretty simple, really.

]]> By: peace http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142685 peace Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:23:30 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142685 Yes, Karen and all, in the halls of Congress, he does take on the Bush Administration, immensely better than do any of the others. Yes, Karen and all, in the halls of Congress, he does take on the Bush Administration, immensely better than do any of the others.

]]> By: Leonard Martino http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142481 Leonard Martino Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:11:07 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142481 Ron Paul is a national treasure Ron Paul is a national treasure

]]> By: Badger114 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142379 Badger114 Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:41:28 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142379 LOL! (Ron Paul Philosophy). He believes in following the Constitution. If you want to call that his philosophy, then what your saying is, we don't need the Constitution, with all our rights it protects. We just need to be antiwar. Our liberties and rights we can do without. Is that what your saying? LOL! (Ron Paul Philosophy). He believes in following the Constitution. If you want to call that his philosophy, then what your saying is, we don’t need the Constitution, with all our rights it protects. We just need to be antiwar. Our liberties and rights we can do without. Is that what your saying?

]]> By: MetaCynic http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142330 MetaCynic Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:25:45 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142330 Tim R. Don't forget the guys convicted for their fantasy paint ball adventure. Or the marginally employed blacks in Miami egged on by an informer to demand combat boots and AK47s in order to attack the Sears Tower in Chicago, but later acquitted by a jury. There must be more, but I can't go on. I just peed in my pants from fear merely writing about these threats to our existence. Please, somebody save us from paint ball, combat boots and smoking gym shoes. Also outlaw those frightening toothpaste and mouthwash bombs! Take away all my rights so that I don't pee in my pants out of fear again. Tim R.

Don’t forget the guys convicted for their fantasy paint ball adventure. Or the marginally employed blacks in Miami egged on by an informer to demand combat boots and AK47s in order to attack the Sears Tower in Chicago, but later acquitted by a jury.

There must be more, but I can’t go on. I just peed in my pants from fear merely writing about these threats to our existence. Please, somebody save us from paint ball, combat boots and smoking gym shoes. Also outlaw those frightening toothpaste and mouthwash bombs! Take away all my rights so that I don’t pee in my pants out of fear again.

]]> By: MetaCynic http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142321 MetaCynic Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:07:56 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142321 I recall that McCain's criticism of Clinton's war against Serbia was that the bombing campaign was too wimpy. McCain wanted to see the civilian infrastructure massively bombed to teach the Serbs the lesson that the Empire must not be resisted. He also wanted to introduce ground troops which would have triggered a guerrilla war. The GOP's position in general was to criticize Clinton's conduct of that war as not being ferocious enough. Just as modern Democrats have never met a tax which is high enough, modern Republicans have never met a war which is bloody enough. I recall that McCain’s criticism of Clinton’s war against Serbia was that the bombing campaign was too wimpy. McCain wanted to see the civilian infrastructure massively bombed to teach the Serbs the lesson that the Empire must not be resisted. He also wanted to introduce ground troops which would have triggered a guerrilla war.

The GOP’s position in general was to criticize Clinton’s conduct of that war as not being ferocious enough. Just as modern Democrats have never met a tax which is high enough, modern Republicans have never met a war which is bloody enough.

]]> By: DT http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142086 DT Mon, 17 Mar 2008 05:03:01 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142086 We don't need a "Ron Paul philosophy", we just need to be antiwar. We don’t need a “Ron Paul philosophy”, we just need to be antiwar.

]]> By: masmanz http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142033 masmanz Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:46:06 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142033 If Tim believes these plots were real threats he will believe anything. No guns, no bombs, just a few hot heads trying to impress FBI informants and some trying to con supposedly alqaida men to buy them boots. If one wants to give up his freedom for the fear of such idots does he really value his freedom at all? If Tim believes these plots were real threats he will believe anything. No guns, no bombs, just a few hot heads trying to impress FBI informants and some trying to con supposedly alqaida men to buy them boots. If one wants to give up his freedom for the fear of such idots does he really value his freedom at all?

]]> By: Karen http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142031 Karen Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:42:18 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-142031 Ron Paul philosophy is still alive and well. And to the idiot that thought that Ron wimped out and didn't take on the Bush administration, you have not been out to see the numerous videotaped speeches Ron Paul did in Congress that did indeed take them on? He is no wimp. Ron Paul philosophy is still alive and well. And to the idiot that thought that Ron wimped out and didn’t take on the Bush administration, you have not been out to see the numerous videotaped speeches Ron Paul did in Congress that did indeed take them on? He is no wimp.

]]> By: Brad Smith http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-141902 Brad Smith Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:50:16 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-141902 In place, there is license to do good, and evil; whereof the latter is a curse: for in evil the best condition is not to will; the second, not to can. But power to do good, is the true and lawful end of aspiring. For good thoughts (though God accept them) yet, towards men, are little better than good dreams, except they be put in act; and that cannot be, without power and place, as the vantage, and commanding ground. Merit and good works, is the end of man's motion; and conscience of the same is the accomplishment of man's rest. Francis Bacon I'm sorry you feel less for Ron Paul now then you did before he ran. I don't feel that way at all. Peace! In place, there is license to do good, and evil; whereof the latter is a curse: for in evil the best condition is not to will; the second, not to can. But power to do good, is the true and lawful end of aspiring. For good thoughts (though God accept them) yet, towards men, are little better than good dreams, except they be put in act; and that cannot be, without power and place, as the vantage, and commanding ground. Merit and good works, is the end of man’s motion; and conscience of the same is the accomplishment of man’s rest.

Francis Bacon

I’m sorry you feel less for Ron Paul now then you did before he ran. I don’t feel that way at all.

Peace!

]]> By: Badger114 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-141864 Badger114 Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:24:25 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/03/14/ron-paul-on-the-surveillance-bill/#comment-141864 I take issue with anyone, who is willing to give up any amount of thier freedom or liberties for false felling of security. I just do not understand the logic of some that use the phrase (we are fighting terrorist over there, so they don't come over here) or (there hasn't been another attack on us since 911). Lets look at the obvious reasons why they don't need to come over her. First they have already killed more Americans, and wounded tens of thousands more then they did at the World Trade Center. Second, they can maintain the fight on thier turf and keep the most powerful nation on earth tied up basically on pocket change compared to what were spending. So thier bleeding us dry in a war of attrition. We could flatten all of Manhattan and rebuild it for cheaper then this war is gonna cost when its all said and done. So basically its easier and more cost effective for them. And finally, do you really believe if they wanted to come over here and blow something up we could stop them. We can't even stop the thoudands of illegal aliens that swarm across our boarder. Please get real. I'd like to add a fote note also. I have a very dear friend(i use the term have even tho he is no longer alive) that was a childhood friend that I grew up with. I visit him whenever I can. He is resting in a national cemetery. He died in Vietnam. There is nothing more sobering then to walk through there and see all the markers(thousands of them) in nice neat rolls. Well manicured grass. Its actually very peacful cosidering the violent circumstances that brought most of them there. So what i'm asking or suggesting is for those of you who are willing to give up a ounce of your liberties so it makes you feel more safe, to visit a national cemetery, and take a walk. Walk down the rolls and look at the names and tell these guys that paid the ultimate price to preserve your rights and liberties, why your so willing to give one ounce of them up. Maybe they will understand. But God knows I never will. We have become a country of whimps whenever the goverment uses the word terrorist. You run and hide and give up whatever they want as long as you think it will make you safe. I take issue with anyone, who is willing to give up any amount of thier freedom or liberties for false felling of security. I just do not understand the logic of some that use the phrase (we are fighting terrorist over there, so they don’t come over here) or (there hasn’t been another attack on us since 911).
Lets look at the obvious reasons why they don’t need to come over her. First they have already killed more Americans, and wounded tens of thousands more then they did at the World Trade Center. Second, they can maintain the fight on thier turf and keep the most powerful nation on earth tied up basically on pocket change compared to what were spending. So thier bleeding us dry in a war of attrition. We could flatten all of Manhattan and rebuild it for cheaper then this war is gonna cost when its all said and done. So basically its easier and more cost effective for them. And finally, do you really believe if they wanted to come over here and blow something up we could stop them. We can’t even stop the thoudands of illegal aliens that swarm across our boarder. Please get real. I’d like to add a fote note also. I have a very dear friend(i use the term have even tho he is no longer alive) that was a childhood friend that I grew up with. I visit him whenever I can. He is resting in a national cemetery. He died in Vietnam. There is nothing more sobering then to walk through there and see all the markers(thousands of them) in nice neat rolls. Well manicured grass. Its actually very peacful cosidering the violent circumstances that brought most of them there. So what i’m asking or suggesting is for those of you who are willing to give up a ounce of your liberties so it makes you feel more safe, to visit a national cemetery, and take a walk. Walk down the rolls and look at the names and tell these guys that paid the ultimate price to preserve your rights and liberties, why your so willing to give one ounce of them up. Maybe they will understand. But God knows I never will. We have become a country of whimps whenever the goverment uses the word terrorist. You run and hide and give up whatever they want as long as you think it will make you safe.

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