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	<title>Comments on: Tue., June 10: Tell Congress You Want Dialogue, Not War with Iran</title>
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	<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/</link>
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		<title>By: Lear K</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154908</link>
		<dc:creator>Lear K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154908</guid>
		<description>How about the non-&quot;islamic radicals&quot; Christians,Jewish , democaratic fantics,and change the world tfantics!??They too see no problem in killing the ones that stand in their way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about the non-&#8221;islamic radicals&#8221; Christians,Jewish , democaratic fantics,and change the world tfantics!??They too see no problem in killing the ones that stand in their way!</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154775</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154775</guid>
		<description>One further point, I believe, deserves examination.  Iran has every reason to want nuclear energy.  Its rapidly growing population is shrinking the gap between oil exports and domestic consumption.  In as little as a decade it will become a net oil importer if it continues on its current course: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/377.  Whilst Iran might conceivably have strong motives for wanting nukes (and aren&#039;t these the fault of the US for failing to rein in Pakistan and Israel?), it has far stronger reasons for obtaining nuclear energy.  Additionally, the US torpedoed a watchdog resolution by the UN against regional nuclear proliferation some months that was supported by Iran, mostly because it would have seen the nuclear disarmament of Israel.  So the idea that the hypothetical weapons program in Iran is the consequence of Islamic &quot;fanaticism&quot; is greatly weakened by both the arguments you present and the past actions of other regional players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One further point, I believe, deserves examination.  Iran has every reason to want nuclear energy.  Its rapidly growing population is shrinking the gap between oil exports and domestic consumption.  In as little as a decade it will become a net oil importer if it continues on its current course: <a href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/377" rel="nofollow">http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/377</a>.  Whilst Iran might conceivably have strong motives for wanting nukes (and aren&#8217;t these the fault of the US for failing to rein in Pakistan and Israel?), it has far stronger reasons for obtaining nuclear energy.  Additionally, the US torpedoed a watchdog resolution by the UN against regional nuclear proliferation some months that was supported by Iran, mostly because it would have seen the nuclear disarmament of Israel.  So the idea that the hypothetical weapons program in Iran is the consequence of Islamic &#8220;fanaticism&#8221; is greatly weakened by both the arguments you present and the past actions of other regional players.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154773</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154773</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Perhaps for the moment they are not, but should we allow them the means to quickly do so, should they decide to?&lt;/i&gt;

Why not?  Assuming for a moment it did, an Iranian nuclear arsenal would have the effect of restoring a long-absent balance of power in the region.  Its leadership exhibit a market absence of suicidal propensities- in the main because suicide bombing is an expression of a particular set of political circumstances, not an Islamic idiom, and can be found in terrorist groups both secular and religious.  To associate the two is both fallacious and ahistorical in the extreme.  You might as well argue that the Soviet Union or the PRC would be more than willing to commit the nuclear equivalent of a suicide attack because of analogous actions by the Marxist Tamil Tigers.

&lt;i&gt;Also, I think we have to act on the assumption that they are.  Clearly if they were developing nuclear weapons they would not tell us, they would deny it.&lt;/i&gt;

So would any country developing nuclear weapons with aggressive intent, but &quot;guilty until proven innocent&quot; is not a valid precept in the realm of law and is arbitrarily applied here- unless, of course, you would have the great powers make the same assumption of every hitherto non-nuclear state in existence.  So this isn&#039;t an argument for anything.  It is sheer question-begging.

&lt;i&gt;And it makes logical sense that the would in fact want nuclear weapons. Why wouldn’t they? Israel, Pakistan, and India already have nuclear weapons so it makes sense to me that Iran would want them too.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Cui Bono&lt;/i&gt; is also not definitive proof.

&lt;i&gt;As for the fatwa you mentioned. Do you have more details on that?&lt;/i&gt;

http://www.spacewar.com/2005/050412130710.kizyij2s.html

&lt;i&gt;In any event I would not take that too seriously because Islamic radicals believe that it is perfectly permissible to lie to non-Muslims so they may have just done that to get our guard down.&lt;/i&gt;

A fatwa is much more than a declaration of intent.  It is a religious opinion by a scholar of Islam that possesses great importance.  To violate this fatwa would destroy the Ayatollah&#039;s credibility as a religious scholar.  See the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Perhaps for the moment they are not, but should we allow them the means to quickly do so, should they decide to?</i></p>
<p>Why not?  Assuming for a moment it did, an Iranian nuclear arsenal would have the effect of restoring a long-absent balance of power in the region.  Its leadership exhibit a market absence of suicidal propensities- in the main because suicide bombing is an expression of a particular set of political circumstances, not an Islamic idiom, and can be found in terrorist groups both secular and religious.  To associate the two is both fallacious and ahistorical in the extreme.  You might as well argue that the Soviet Union or the PRC would be more than willing to commit the nuclear equivalent of a suicide attack because of analogous actions by the Marxist Tamil Tigers.</p>
<p><i>Also, I think we have to act on the assumption that they are.  Clearly if they were developing nuclear weapons they would not tell us, they would deny it.</i></p>
<p>So would any country developing nuclear weapons with aggressive intent, but &#8220;guilty until proven innocent&#8221; is not a valid precept in the realm of law and is arbitrarily applied here- unless, of course, you would have the great powers make the same assumption of every hitherto non-nuclear state in existence.  So this isn&#8217;t an argument for anything.  It is sheer question-begging.</p>
<p><i>And it makes logical sense that the would in fact want nuclear weapons. Why wouldn’t they? Israel, Pakistan, and India already have nuclear weapons so it makes sense to me that Iran would want them too.</i></p>
<p><i>Cui Bono</i> is also not definitive proof.</p>
<p><i>As for the fatwa you mentioned. Do you have more details on that?</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.spacewar.com/2005/050412130710.kizyij2s.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spacewar.com/2005/050412130710.kizyij2s.html</a></p>
<p><i>In any event I would not take that too seriously because Islamic radicals believe that it is perfectly permissible to lie to non-Muslims so they may have just done that to get our guard down.</i></p>
<p>A fatwa is much more than a declaration of intent.  It is a religious opinion by a scholar of Islam that possesses great importance.  To violate this fatwa would destroy the Ayatollah&#8217;s credibility as a religious scholar.  See the wikipedia entry: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154759</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154759</guid>
		<description>True enough, I suppose.  One cannot miss the irony in the fact that discussion of these issues in Israel is freer than it is in America, if only because the former cannot afford the latter&#039;s ideological blinkers.  Additionally, &quot;self-hating Jew&quot; looks much more absurd on its face than does &quot;anti-semite&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True enough, I suppose.  One cannot miss the irony in the fact that discussion of these issues in Israel is freer than it is in America, if only because the former cannot afford the latter&#8217;s ideological blinkers.  Additionally, &#8220;self-hating Jew&#8221; looks much more absurd on its face than does &#8220;anti-semite&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim R.</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154747</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154747</guid>
		<description>Kenneth,

You make a cogent arguement for your position. I concede the point that there is certainly doubt as to whether or not Iran is trying to get nuclear weapons. Perhaps for the moment they are not, but should we allow them the means to quickly do so, should they decide to? Also,I think we have to act on the assumption that they are. Clearly if they were developing nuclear weapons they would not tell us, they would deny it. 

And it makes logical sense that the would in fact want nuclear weapons. Why wouldn&#039;t they? Israel, Pakistan, and India already have nuclear weapons so it makes sense to me that Iran would want them too. As for the fatwa you mentioned. Do you have more details on that? In any event I would not take that too seriously because Islamic radicals believe that it is perfectly permissible to lie to non-Muslims so they may have just done that to get our guard down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenneth,</p>
<p>You make a cogent arguement for your position. I concede the point that there is certainly doubt as to whether or not Iran is trying to get nuclear weapons. Perhaps for the moment they are not, but should we allow them the means to quickly do so, should they decide to? Also,I think we have to act on the assumption that they are. Clearly if they were developing nuclear weapons they would not tell us, they would deny it. </p>
<p>And it makes logical sense that the would in fact want nuclear weapons. Why wouldn&#8217;t they? Israel, Pakistan, and India already have nuclear weapons so it makes sense to me that Iran would want them too. As for the fatwa you mentioned. Do you have more details on that? In any event I would not take that too seriously because Islamic radicals believe that it is perfectly permissible to lie to non-Muslims so they may have just done that to get our guard down.</p>
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		<title>By: Lear K</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154745</link>
		<dc:creator>Lear K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154745</guid>
		<description>parity with Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>parity with Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: Lear K</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154744</link>
		<dc:creator>Lear K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154744</guid>
		<description>The US acting on behalf of Israel will not allow any country in the region to achieve a  parity  in any kind of weapons not even conventional ones.The notion that only western  leadrs are rational,and non-western are not is absolutly absurd.The war on Iraq illustrate this point very clearly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The US acting on behalf of Israel will not allow any country in the region to achieve a  parity  in any kind of weapons not even conventional ones.The notion that only western  leadrs are rational,and non-western are not is absolutly absurd.The war on Iraq illustrate this point very clearly.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154735</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154735</guid>
		<description>Of course I know that, but I still think the threshold for a non-Jew is lower, and the &quot;self-hating Jew&quot; label is less socially damaging.

That is, a given level of criticism of Israel will get a non-Jew labeled &quot;anti-Semite&quot;, where as that same level of criticism coming from a Jew is less likely to get him or her labeled &quot;self-hating Jew&quot;. 

And anyway, the &quot;anti-Semite&quot; smear carries a much heavier stigma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I know that, but I still think the threshold for a non-Jew is lower, and the &#8220;self-hating Jew&#8221; label is less socially damaging.</p>
<p>That is, a given level of criticism of Israel will get a non-Jew labeled &#8220;anti-Semite&#8221;, where as that same level of criticism coming from a Jew is less likely to get him or her labeled &#8220;self-hating Jew&#8221;. </p>
<p>And anyway, the &#8220;anti-Semite&#8221; smear carries a much heavier stigma.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154702</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154702</guid>
		<description>There is nothing that could be mistaken as evidence for the notion that Iran is seeking or possesses nuclear weapons.  It has neither the means nor the motive to threaten the west.  Iran&#039;s supreme leader, as I attempted to bring to your attention on a prior thread, has issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons.  America&#039;s own National Intelligence Estimate discounts the phantasmagoric &quot;nuclear threat&quot;.  In the highly unlikely event of a nuclear strike on America, it is free to retaliate.  But there is nothing to suggest that this is  even remotely probable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing that could be mistaken as evidence for the notion that Iran is seeking or possesses nuclear weapons.  It has neither the means nor the motive to threaten the west.  Iran&#8217;s supreme leader, as I attempted to bring to your attention on a prior thread, has issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons.  America&#8217;s own National Intelligence Estimate discounts the phantasmagoric &#8220;nuclear threat&#8221;.  In the highly unlikely event of a nuclear strike on America, it is free to retaliate.  But there is nothing to suggest that this is  even remotely probable.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim R.</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154690</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154690</guid>
		<description>Iran&#039;s government is headed by a  fanatical mad man. And he reports to and takes his orders from even more fanatical zealots. No want wants war with Iran, and the United States along with Europe and the UN, should work to resvolve this diplomatically. However, so far Iran&#039;s position has been intractable, despite several UN resolutions and sanctions. If diplomatic and economic measures don&#039;t work, then as a last resort, the military option must be considered. In no way do I advocate an invasion of Iran or &quot;regime change&quot; but a pinpoint, surgical strike on its nuclear facilities is a reasonable option that should be considered. 

Again, this is not about Israel. I truly feel that nuclear weapons in the hands of Islamic radicals presents a severe and unacceptable threat to the national security of the United States. I do not fear the former Soviet Union and the thousands of nuclear weapsons she has as much as I do even one nuclear weapon in the hands of an Islamic fanatic. The threat of Islamic terrorists using nuclear weapons is much greater than the threat we faced in the cold war. &quot;Mutually Assured Destruction&quot; or &quot;MAD&quot; as they say does not apply to Islamic zealots. An Islamic fanatic has no fear of death and so he would most happily and readily give up his life in order to use a nuclear bomb against &quot;infidels.&quot; It is bad enough that a relatively unstable government in Pakistan now has nuclear weapson, do we want to make the problem even worse. 

Unfortunlty, people generally only close the stable door after the horse is out of the barn. Unless, heaven forbid, we turn on CNN and see a mushroom cloud over what used to be a major American or European city, people will not wake up to the severity of the threat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iran&#8217;s government is headed by a  fanatical mad man. And he reports to and takes his orders from even more fanatical zealots. No want wants war with Iran, and the United States along with Europe and the UN, should work to resvolve this diplomatically. However, so far Iran&#8217;s position has been intractable, despite several UN resolutions and sanctions. If diplomatic and economic measures don&#8217;t work, then as a last resort, the military option must be considered. In no way do I advocate an invasion of Iran or &#8220;regime change&#8221; but a pinpoint, surgical strike on its nuclear facilities is a reasonable option that should be considered. </p>
<p>Again, this is not about Israel. I truly feel that nuclear weapons in the hands of Islamic radicals presents a severe and unacceptable threat to the national security of the United States. I do not fear the former Soviet Union and the thousands of nuclear weapsons she has as much as I do even one nuclear weapon in the hands of an Islamic fanatic. The threat of Islamic terrorists using nuclear weapons is much greater than the threat we faced in the cold war. &#8220;Mutually Assured Destruction&#8221; or &#8220;MAD&#8221; as they say does not apply to Islamic zealots. An Islamic fanatic has no fear of death and so he would most happily and readily give up his life in order to use a nuclear bomb against &#8220;infidels.&#8221; It is bad enough that a relatively unstable government in Pakistan now has nuclear weapson, do we want to make the problem even worse. </p>
<p>Unfortunlty, people generally only close the stable door after the horse is out of the barn. Unless, heaven forbid, we turn on CNN and see a mushroom cloud over what used to be a major American or European city, people will not wake up to the severity of the threat.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154687</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154687</guid>
		<description>Taking the longer view, does one a war that may be limited in scope and duration, or one whose scale will likely prove to be undoing of the American Empire?  Obama has displayed at least some willingness to advocate withdrawal when circumstances look dire; McCain, on the other hand, will likely persist to the bitter end.  The Evil Empire, it seems, will end as it began: in blood and fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking the longer view, does one a war that may be limited in scope and duration, or one whose scale will likely prove to be undoing of the American Empire?  Obama has displayed at least some willingness to advocate withdrawal when circumstances look dire; McCain, on the other hand, will likely persist to the bitter end.  The Evil Empire, it seems, will end as it began: in blood and fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/06/08/tue-june-12-tell-congress-you-want-dialogue-not-war-with-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-154686</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4358#comment-154686</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not merely the foolish goy who are subject to this manner of discursive discipline.  It includes various Jewish anti-Zionists as well.  The &quot;self-hating Jew&quot; is an appellation created with this contingency in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not merely the foolish goy who are subject to this manner of discursive discipline.  It includes various Jewish anti-Zionists as well.  The &#8220;self-hating Jew&#8221; is an appellation created with this contingency in mind.</p>
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