Joe Klein on Conflated Loyalties

Eric Garris, July 02, 2008

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Joe Klein has been doing battle with the neocons over at Commentary Magazine, who have gone so far as to label him anti-Semitic.

Klein penned this essay and this response last week.

Klein continues the battle today regarding the insistance of the neocons that Israel cannot survive without US intervention as its savior.

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Comments to “Joe Klein on Conflated Loyalties”

Eric
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Yeah, I saw that stuff. I’m amazed that Klein was so brutally candid.

andy
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Israel needs the U.S. But the U.S. does not need Israel.

Julia
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:48 pm

Good for Klein.

Now he can join the club of gentiles who have been called anti-semites for criticizing Israel’s actions and the US neo-zios.

David Banks
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 am

Dual loyalists, shmuel loyalists. The one overriding loyalty these neocon war maniacs have is to their own inbred ethnicity, as incarnated in their ugly little racist statelet.

Let them make aliyah and stop slandering, bewildering and embarrassing the other 99% of American Jews, including brave men such as Joe Klein who refuse to be stampeded into a herd heading for a cliff.

Eric
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 am

Joe Klein is not a gentile, he is Jewish. But the neo-crazies are not above calling Jews “anti-Semites”.

For example, after the head of Human Rights Watch, who is Jewish, condemned Israel’s atrocities against Lebanon in the summer of 2006, prominent Jewish neocons called him an anti-Semite.

Paul
July 4th, 2008 at 6:46 am

A reader comment on Klein’s response:

“There’s something terribly depressing about being scorned by people who have used you, isn’t there?”

Tim R.
July 5th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

I reject dual loyalties by ANYONE, Jew or non Jew, black or white, it makes no difference. If you live in America and are a US citizen your total, complete, and full loyalty should be to the United States of America and to no other country. In fact, if you live in a America and are not a citizen, either become one or get the hell out. Ok? And our government should get rid of duel citizenship. It should NOT be allowed.

However, with that being said, I am sick and tired of people accusing Jews of dual loyalty. I am Jewish and that is important to me but my first and only loyalty is to the United States of America. Do I feel a special connection to the land of Israel and the Jewish people? Sure I do. The same way that a Catholic would feel a special connection to the Vatican and fellow Catholics. But that in no way means my loyalty is to any other nation but the USA. Are there some Jews that do have dual loyalities? I admit that there are. Particularly some of the very zionistic Jews in certain orthodox communities. But they are a very small minority of the whole Jewish people.

So the bottom line is this: I am a Jew and I am quite conservative when it comes to foreign policy. And I do think radical Islam and Iran are serious threats to America. Want to argue with me? Ok. Could I be wrong? Sure I could. Just don’t accuse me of dual loyalties!

richard vajs
July 6th, 2008 at 9:19 am

Okay Tim R, I’ll argue with you. Although raised as a Christian, I am ethnically Jewish and was married into a German-Jewish family that had fled Germany in 1935. But, unlike you, I have no love for Israel. Israel is racist, it steals land from the Palestinians, it is a war monger against the Arabs, and it stoops to deceit to mislead America into its messy problems. And I guess that is the difference between you and I .
You (and don’t let me put words in your mouth that don’t belong there) see the world through a “patriotic” lens. As such, there is no such thing as absolute justice – only what is good for your “team”. And you take pride in rooting for only one “team”. Your job, and it is the same for others like you, is to ensure that both of your favorite “teams” are on the same side. You have no problem with Israel’s racism because you have no problem with racism yourself, as long as the victims are people like Arabs or Mexicans – people who annoy you just by their proximity to you. You have no problem with Israel’s land stealing because you can connect that action with classic red, white and blue imperialism of America’s 19th Century. You have no problem with Israel dumping cluster bombs on Lebanon because you likewise have no problem with America bombing Iraq or Afghanistan; not letting the massive death of innocent civilians bother you in the least. You have no problem with Israel’s constant mode of public deceit because you have no problem with the Bush Administration’s constant mode of public deceit. So you conclude that rooting for the Israel team and the American team presents no problem as long as America actas like Israel. And that is exactly what the mission of the Zionist is – to fit Israel and America into the same shoe. Then a Zionist can claim to be a wonderful American while watching Israel prosper.
People like me, see that Zionist influenced America is rotten and corrupt and destined for a well deserved reward. We see the wanton slaughter of Arabs, the theft of their land, and the ravings of a deceitful monster like Bush as totally alien to American ideals. And because of my demands for civilized behavior from both Israel and America, I guess I am loyal to neither.

Tim R.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:57 am

Richard Vajs,

You make some interesting points and I would like you to clarify some of them. First of all, before getting to that, let me say this: I oppose bombing civilians by anyone, whether by a Islamic terrorist or by the government of the United States. I think we were wrong to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I think we should bend over backwards and do everything that is humanly possible to avoid innocent civilians being killed in combat operations. I think it is a disgrace that we fire bombed Dresden and that we killed millions of Vietnamese civilians in the Vietnam war. So how do you like them apples? (Unlike say, Henry Kissinger, I am more than willing to criticize my “team” when they do wrong. ) Just because I am very patriotic does not mean I don’t have morals. It just means that I love my country in spite of the bad things it has done. And killing civilians is wrong. However, in a war I do realize that sometimes innoecent people do get killed. It is unavoidable.

To your points: You mentioned that Israel is racist and steals land. First of all, how is Israel racist? And is she any more racist then say, Japan for instance? Did you know that NO ONE can become a Japanese citizen unless they are born Japanese? Oh sure, you can live there, but you can’t become a full citizen. Is Israel more racist then Saudi Arabia? Where non-Muslims are not even allowed to visit Mecca and Medina.

Stealing land: Can you explain that. I know we went over it before but is it not true that the United Nations voted in Novemeber of 1947 for a two state plan? Is it not true that the Palestinians would have had their own state back then and it would have been much larger than what they are negotiating for now? Is it not true that the Arabs rejected that plan and chose war instead? Also, as a person who seems to me to have a good understanding of history, can you possibly deny the connection of Jews to that land?
(By the way, I do agree with you that Israel has not treated the Palestinians very well at all. and they have often times been cruel and unfair in their treatment and they need to do a lot better by them)

Last but not least, this was a conversation about loyalty. So let me be clear again: I only have one team. The United States of America.

jbyopa
July 6th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

Jews in Palestine were just part of mix of ethnic and religious groups that have controlled that land for thousands of years. God’s unsigned lease notwithstanding, they have no more “right” to annex Palestine and turn it into a quasi-socialist theocracy than the descendent’s of the Celtic tribes of mainland Europe would have in claiming swaths of France and Switzerland as a Celtic homeland. History is replete with accounts of massed migrations, many undertaken under great duress, driven by war, famine, and ethnic cleansing.

richard vajs
July 6th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Tim R,
You need me to prove that Israel is racist and a land stealer? Are you that unwilling to see the truth? Can you possibly not be aware of the “settlers” in occupied Palestine – their harrassment of Palestinian school children, their destruction of peaceful Palestinian orchards and crops? Can you be ignorant of Israel’s policy of not recognizing Palestinian right of return to land they still have legitimate title to, while allowing any ethnic Jew to come in and squat on Arab land? Can you be so ignorant of history that you don’t know that Israel was founded by terrorists? The Palestinians in 1948 were not given any choices – Israel was rammed down their throats and Israel promptly went on an ethnic cleansing spree. Can you not see that Gaza is the equivalent of the Warsaw Ghetto under the Nazis?
You are undoubtedly loyal to an America run by the neocons – an America with torture prisons like Gitmo, an America dominated by militarism, swaggering about the World demanding its way, an America threatening Iran with nuclear destruction, an America where every major office seaker must genuflect before “Israeli interests”. I have loyalty to neither Israel nor such an America corrupted by Israel.

Lear K
July 7th, 2008 at 6:43 am

The US has been highjacked by the Israeli lobby and its supporters.

baj
July 8th, 2008 at 11:51 pm

Just to clarify without getting into the larger issue, your contention that a person cannot become a Japanese citizen unless they are born Japanese is incorrect. It is not an easy process, but it can and has been done by many.

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