Comments on: Did the Marines Die for Absolute Power? http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:12:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Brad Smith http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-163004 Brad Smith Mon, 03 Nov 2008 05:04:01 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-163004 Strider, I agree that they are not all helpless pawns. However, unless you have served in the military I doubt if you can truly understand the level of brainwashing that goes on. Most Joe's will never refuse orders "en masse". It's not just that they face being jailed, they also face the social repercussions, loss of future jobs etc. I would like to think that if I was serving now I would refuse to deploy and not take any part in the murder of the Iraq people. However, I am now a far different person than I was as a child of 19 when I joined up. Knowing what I know now I would not enlist for any amount of money and I activley work at talking anyone I know out of joining up. Expecting brainwashed children to make a stand against the military is wishfull thinking. We can't even get the majority of US citizens to make a stand and they don't face the prospect of long jail terms or loss of jobs. I think one thing we would both agree on would be to stop all this support the troops nonsense. No one should be called a hero because they enlist. This type of thinking helps aid recrutement and retention. although I have sympathy for our children soldiers I wouldn't ever call them a hero for taking any part in the mass murders we are commiting. I have no sympathy for the adults who continue to re up for tour after tour. However, there are even times when reenlisting makes sense if you understand how the military works. Many Joe's are stuck in a position where if they refuse to reenlist they will be stop lossed and stuck in a front line job. If they reenlist they have a choice of having a less dangerous MOS and might even have a chance at staying stateside. It's hard for me to blame anyone for wanting to stay out of harms way either for themselves or their families. It's true that if our soldiers where the hero's they are protraided to be they would go awol, but they won't. They are after all just humans like the rest of us. When it becomes socially acceptible for them to take such a brave action it may change but not until then. Peace! Strider, I agree that they are not all helpless pawns. However, unless you have served in the military I doubt if you can truly understand the level of brainwashing that goes on. Most Joe’s will never refuse orders “en masse”. It’s not just that they face being jailed, they also face the social repercussions, loss of future jobs etc. I would like to think that if I was serving now I would refuse to deploy and not take any part in the murder of the Iraq people. However, I am now a far different person than I was as a child of 19 when I joined up. Knowing what I know now I would not enlist for any amount of money and I activley work at talking anyone I know out of joining up.

Expecting brainwashed children to make a stand against the military is wishfull thinking. We can’t even get the majority of US citizens to make a stand and they don’t face the prospect of long jail terms or loss of jobs. I think one thing we would both agree on would be to stop all this support the troops nonsense. No one should be called a hero because they enlist. This type of thinking helps aid recrutement and retention. although I have sympathy for our children soldiers I wouldn’t ever call them a hero for taking any part in the mass murders we are commiting. I have no sympathy for the adults who continue to re up for tour after tour. However, there are even times when reenlisting makes sense if you understand how the military works. Many Joe’s are stuck in a position where if they refuse to reenlist they will be stop lossed and stuck in a front line job. If they reenlist they have a choice of having a less dangerous MOS and might even have a chance at staying stateside. It’s hard for me to blame anyone for wanting to stay out of harms way either for themselves or their families.

It’s true that if our soldiers where the hero’s they are protraided to be they would go awol, but they won’t. They are after all just humans like the rest of us. When it becomes socially acceptible for them to take such a brave action it may change but not until then.

Peace!

]]> By: Strider http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162999 Strider Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:16:22 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162999 The soldiers are NOT helpless pawns. They could put a stop to the madness simply by refusing orders <i>en masse</i>. Not just orders to shoot, but patrol orders, deployment orders, etc. The military would be paralyzed if that happened -- they couldn't court-martial hundreds of thousands of soldiers at once. All they could do is make highly-publicized examples of a few and hope fear does the rest. IIRC the US army was on the verge of open revolt in Vietnam, which was the main reason the draft was abolished. The soldiers are NOT helpless pawns. They could put a stop to the madness simply by refusing orders en masse. Not just orders to shoot, but patrol orders, deployment orders, etc. The military would be paralyzed if that happened — they couldn’t court-martial hundreds of thousands of soldiers at once. All they could do is make highly-publicized examples of a few and hope fear does the rest. IIRC the US army was on the verge of open revolt in Vietnam, which was the main reason the draft was abolished.

]]> By: Brad Smith http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162876 Brad Smith Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:04:41 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162876 What soldiers deserve is a nation and leaders who will bring them home and never send them out again. They deserve a media, schools and churches that don't feed them endless propaganda that is pro war. Blaming brainwashed children for the wars isn't the answer. Our leaders who lied us into this war deserve to be tried for war crimes. One question, what do you think the endless slew of Americans who support these criminals deserve? Peace! What soldiers deserve is a nation and leaders who will bring them home and never send them out again. They deserve a media, schools and churches that don’t feed them endless propaganda that is pro war. Blaming brainwashed children for the wars isn’t the answer. Our leaders who lied us into this war deserve to be tried for war crimes. One question, what do you think the endless slew of Americans who support these criminals deserve?

Peace!

]]> By: Joshua Shoenfeld http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162860 Joshua Shoenfeld Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:16:19 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162860 Soldiers deserve to die for their crimes of violating the natural rights of peaceful people around the world on behalf of the vile US regime and military. Hopefully, the resistance movements in Iraq and Afghanistan will continue to fight the world's greatest threat to peace and liberty in defense of their lives, liberty, and property. Soldiers deserve to die for their crimes of violating the natural rights of peaceful people around the world on behalf of the vile US regime and military. Hopefully, the resistance movements in Iraq and Afghanistan will continue to fight the world’s greatest threat to peace and liberty in defense of their lives, liberty, and property.

]]> By: Lester Ness http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162780 Lester Ness Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:44:45 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162780 They died for Reagan's vanity and the vanity of the American people. If we can't fix our own social problems, how can we fix anyone else's? Lester Ness Kunming China They died for Reagan’s vanity and the vanity of the American people. If we can’t fix our own social problems, how can we fix anyone else’s?

Lester Ness
Kunming
China

]]> By: R. Nelson http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162778 R. Nelson Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:25:20 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162778 Hmmm. I dismember Robert Turner's WSJ piece (supra) and end up in empty ether. What's up, Jim? Hmmm. I dismember Robert Turner’s WSJ piece (supra) and end up in empty ether. What’s up, Jim?

]]> By: Brad Smith http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162766 Brad Smith Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:07:59 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162766 Agreed, we had no business being there. The Michigan Militia had NO culpability for the Oklahoma bombing as they played no part in it other than as a scapegoat. Neither of the bombers were members of the Michigan Militia. This lie was put out to discredit the growing militia movements accross the nation. In much of Michigan the militia was growing at a rate that alarmed the government. In Northern Michigan the numbers of militia members outnumbered the national guard. After the bombing and the propaganda blitz that followed many people shied away fearing what the fed's would do next. I have many friends in the Michigan Militia and I have been asked to speak at meeting and join as well. I refused for my own reasons. Although the Michigan Militia is very well armed (they have even been allowed to use the ranges on National Guard bases for live fire exercises), I know for a fact that they do not condone any violent actions, especially the Oklahoma bombings. The bombing and negative media coverage did more damage to the militias than it did the goverment. Of course this validates Lawrence's point. The government is willing to use any event to spin the propaganda their way. Beirut, Oklahoma, 9/11, what next? Peace! Agreed, we had no business being there.

The Michigan Militia had NO culpability for the Oklahoma bombing as they played no part in it other than as a scapegoat. Neither of the bombers were members of the Michigan Militia. This lie was put out to discredit the growing militia movements accross the nation. In much of Michigan the militia was growing at a rate that alarmed the government. In Northern Michigan the numbers of militia members outnumbered the national guard. After the bombing and the propaganda blitz that followed many people shied away fearing what the fed’s would do next.

I have many friends in the Michigan Militia and I have been asked to speak at meeting and join as well. I refused for my own reasons. Although the Michigan Militia is very well armed (they have even been allowed to use the ranges on National Guard bases for live fire exercises), I know for a fact that they do not condone any violent actions, especially the Oklahoma bombings. The bombing and negative media coverage did more damage to the militias than it did the goverment.

Of course this validates Lawrence’s point. The government is willing to use any event to spin the propaganda their way. Beirut, Oklahoma, 9/11, what next?

Peace!

]]> By: Lawrence http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162761 Lawrence Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:42:17 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162761 Eugene, you failed to mention the dire peril of that nasty Coke machine. How soon we forget! Oh, the obstacles that faced Amurrrica's heroes. The humanity, the humanity. L Eugene, you failed to mention the dire peril of that nasty Coke machine. How soon we forget! Oh, the obstacles that faced Amurrrica’s heroes. The humanity, the humanity.
L

]]> By: Eugene Costa http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162755 Eugene Costa Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:27:13 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162755 Ronald Reagan's Address on Lebanon and Grenada, October 27, 1983: http://www.usa-patriotism.com/speeches/reagan5.htm Still makes entertaining reading. Grenada, ah yes--the diversion that mesmerized the media through December and kept the Caribbean safe from Cuban construction workers. If nothing else, the Neo-Cons were quick studies. Ronald Reagan’s Address on Lebanon and Grenada, October 27, 1983:

http://www.usa-patriotism.com/speeches/reagan5.htm

Still makes entertaining reading.

Grenada, ah yes–the diversion that mesmerized the media through December and kept the Caribbean safe from Cuban construction workers.

If nothing else, the Neo-Cons were quick studies.

]]> By: charlie http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/10/23/did-the-marines-die-for-absolute-power/comment-page-1/#comment-162749 charlie Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:20:43 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=4814#comment-162749 I am a former US Marine and a Vietnam veteran. When Ronnie Ray-gun sent those Marines to Beirut and put them in the location they were in, I knew it was going to be bad. I never did like old Ronnie, but after the disaster at the barracks I despised his ignorant ass even more. He caused the deaths of those troops and he never was held to account for it. He just used PR and bullshit to talk his way out of any responsibility. "Great Communicator" my ass. He was a professional liar and ought to be despised for his crimes. Now the fools who say the Marines didn't do enough in that instance? Bull crap! They had NO business being there in the first place. It was a fools errand, just like Iraq and Afghanistan are. ENOUGH! semper fi I am a former US Marine and a Vietnam veteran.
When Ronnie Ray-gun sent those Marines to Beirut and put them in the location they were in, I knew it was going to be bad. I never did like old Ronnie, but after the disaster at the barracks I despised his ignorant ass even more. He caused the deaths of those troops and he never was held to account for it.
He just used PR and bullshit to talk his way out of any responsibility. “Great Communicator” my ass. He was a professional liar and ought to be despised for his crimes.
Now the fools who say the Marines didn’t do enough in that instance? Bull crap! They had NO business being there in the first place. It was a fools errand, just like Iraq and Afghanistan are. ENOUGH!
semper fi

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