Comments on: First Amendment Takes Another Hit http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:25:33 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165481 Lear K Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:32:59 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165481 "In 2002, other elements came out of Godhra, showing us how different today’s Gujarat is from its own history. This time Godhra was the flashpoint not for rural protest against tyranny, but for the forces of Hindu fascism. A disputed train fire that killed fifty-eight people (most of whom were activists of the Hindu Right) led to a massive pogrom against impoverished Muslim families and modestly well-off Muslim merchants. Even the normally reticent Human Rights Watch could not hold back, and its report’s title revealed not only the anger of the investigators but also their own principle finding, “We have no orders to save you” State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat (April 2002). The Hindu Right let loose its warriors who killed two thousand people and displaced several thousand more. The state apparatus either stood by or actively participated in the torment. Investigators who traced the line of violence routinely met people who told them, “They killed my whole family.” The carnage was ghastly. Historian Tanika Sarkar wrote of a “breathless climate of terror,” as people fled their homes for poorly managed relief camps, afraid not only of the organized mob but also of the police. People couldn’t sleep, afraid that their tormentors would come again. Chief Minister Narendra Modi came to one area and told the terrified residents, “You will be taken care of.” The language chills: he might have meant that the state will protect them, or that it would punish them. His scowl and his brazen defense of his mobs was no comfort." http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad11072008.html “In 2002, other elements came out of Godhra, showing us how different today’s Gujarat is from its own history. This time Godhra was the flashpoint not for rural protest against tyranny, but for the forces of Hindu fascism. A disputed train fire that killed fifty-eight people (most of whom were activists of the Hindu Right) led to a massive pogrom against impoverished Muslim families and modestly well-off Muslim merchants. Even the normally reticent Human Rights Watch could not hold back, and its report’s title revealed not only the anger of the investigators but also their own principle finding, “We have no orders to save you” State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat (April 2002). The Hindu Right let loose its warriors who killed two thousand people and displaced several thousand more. The state apparatus either stood by or actively participated in the torment. Investigators who traced the line of violence routinely met people who told them, “They killed my whole family.” The carnage was ghastly. Historian Tanika Sarkar wrote of a “breathless climate of terror,” as people fled their homes for poorly managed relief camps, afraid not only of the organized mob but also of the police. People couldn’t sleep, afraid that their tormentors would come again. Chief Minister Narendra Modi came to one area and told the terrified residents, “You will be taken care of.” The language chills: he might have meant that the state will protect them, or that it would punish them. His scowl and his brazen defense of his mobs was no comfort.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad11072008.html

]]> By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165480 Lear K Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:19:25 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165480 "The root cause of suicide terrorism is occupation, not Islam, and not the other way around, as the War Party and its ill-informed adherents so righteously claim. "Don't you remember Sept. 11? We were attacked!" As Harry Browne has pointed out, history does not begin on 9/11. In fact, American intervention in the Middle East dates back to 1919, when U.S. participation in World War I helped turn the entire region over to the British and the French, who then drew borders to their own liking for the states of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, what was Palestine, etc." http://www.antiwar.com/horton/?articleid=6720 “The root cause of suicide terrorism is occupation, not Islam, and not the other way around, as the War Party and its ill-informed adherents so righteously claim.

“Don’t you remember Sept. 11? We were attacked!”

As Harry Browne has pointed out, history does not begin on 9/11. In fact, American intervention in the Middle East dates back to 1919, when U.S. participation in World War I helped turn the entire region over to the British and the French, who then drew borders to their own liking for the states of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, what was Palestine, etc.”

http://www.antiwar.com/horton/?articleid=6720

]]> By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165479 Lear K Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:16:57 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165479 Link to the above. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2528025.stm Link to the above.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2528025.stm

]]> By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165478 Lear K Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:15:47 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165478 Talk about numbers. "A vast crowd, perhaps 150,000 strong, had gathered and was listening to speeches given by BJP and right-wing Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leaders. Among those present were LK Advani and Murli Manohar Joshi, now senior figures in the BJP-led government. Trouble first broke out in the space below us when young men wearing bright yellow headbands man" 150,000 Hindu extremists in one incident in one small state in India. Talk about numbers.

“A vast crowd, perhaps 150,000 strong, had gathered and was listening to speeches given by BJP and right-wing Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leaders.

Among those present were LK Advani and Murli Manohar Joshi, now senior figures in the BJP-led government.

Trouble first broke out in the space below us when young men wearing bright yellow headbands man”

150,000 Hindu extremists in one incident in one small state in India.

]]> By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165477 Lear K Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:09:47 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165477 "The difference is simple. It is a purely mathamatical difference. The NUMBER of radical Christians, Jews, and Hindus " The difference is simple.It is selective reporting and coverage.While the crimes of muslims is widely reported , magnified ,and repeated for a long time. The other difference is that the largest number of countries or areas that under occupations,foreign control and subjecation are muslims countries. “The difference is simple. It is a purely mathamatical difference. The NUMBER of radical Christians, Jews, and Hindus ”

The difference is simple.It is selective reporting and coverage.While the crimes of muslims is widely reported , magnified ,and repeated for a long time.

The other difference is that the largest number of countries or areas that under occupations,foreign control and subjecation are muslims countries.

]]> By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165476 Lear K Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:03:05 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165476 "According to the charges framed by the sessions court in May, the PAC team under Surender Pal Singh arrested about 50 Muslims from Hashimpura, a locality in Meerut, and drove them in a truck to Upper Ganga Canal, Murad Nagar, where some of the victims were shot and thrown into the canal. The remaining were taken to the Hindon Canal in Makanpur and similarly shot and thrown into the canal. Those custodial deaths created a sensation across the country, prompting the Uttar Pradesh government to refer the case to its CB-CID. Even then, the case was held up at every stage for some reason or the other" http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1754369.cms "A vast crowd, perhaps 150,000 strong, had gathered and was listening to speeches given by BJP and right-wing Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leaders. Among those present were LK Advani and Murli Manohar Joshi, now senior figures in the BJP-led government. Trouble first broke out in the space below us when young men wearing bright yellow headbands managed to break through the barriers. Journalists beaten The police stood by and watched, while some men wearing saffron headbands and appointed by the organisers to control the crowd did try to stop them. They soon gave up, however, and joined the intruders in beating up television journalists, smashing their cameras and trampling on their tape recorders. Many Hindu activists wore saffron as they approached the site Encouraged by this, thousands charged towards the outer cordon of police protecting the mosque. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2528025.stm “According to the charges framed by the sessions court in May, the PAC team under Surender Pal Singh arrested about 50 Muslims from Hashimpura, a locality in Meerut, and drove them in a truck to Upper Ganga Canal, Murad Nagar, where some of the victims were shot and thrown into the canal.

The remaining were taken to the Hindon Canal in Makanpur and similarly shot and thrown into the canal. Those custodial deaths created a sensation across the country, prompting the Uttar Pradesh government to refer the case to its CB-CID. Even then, the case was held up at every stage for some reason or the other”

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1754369.cms

“A vast crowd, perhaps 150,000 strong, had gathered and was listening to speeches given by BJP and right-wing Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leaders.

Among those present were LK Advani and Murli Manohar Joshi, now senior figures in the BJP-led government.

Trouble first broke out in the space below us when young men wearing bright yellow headbands managed to break through the barriers.

Journalists beaten

The police stood by and watched, while some men wearing saffron headbands and appointed by the organisers to control the crowd did try to stop them.

They soon gave up, however, and joined the intruders in beating up television journalists, smashing their cameras and trampling on their tape recorders.

Many Hindu activists wore saffron as they approached the site

Encouraged by this, thousands charged towards the outer cordon of police protecting the mosque. ”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2528025.stm

]]> By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165475 Lear K Sat, 27 Dec 2008 04:53:55 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165475 "Eight Jewish teenage residents of Jerusalem were under arrest Tuesday for allegedly stabbing and assaulting three Arab teens and planning further hate-based attacks in the city, police said." http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1209627024612&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull Woman beaten on J'lem bus for refusing to move to rear seat http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19 10-year-old subjected to torture by Israeli soldiers http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=811&CategoryId=1 Gaza families eat grass as Israel locks border http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5338014.ece “Eight Jewish teenage residents of Jerusalem were under arrest Tuesday for allegedly stabbing and assaulting three Arab teens and planning further hate-based attacks in the city, police said.”

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1209627024612&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Woman beaten on J’lem bus for refusing to move to rear seat

http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19

10-year-old subjected to torture by Israeli soldiers

http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=811&CategoryId=1

Gaza families eat grass as Israel locks border

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5338014.ece

]]> By: Tim R. http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165452 Tim R. Fri, 26 Dec 2008 06:28:53 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165452 I will tell you the difference Richard Vajs: The difference is simple. It is a purely mathamatical difference. The NUMBER of radical Christians, Jews, and Hindus (while they should be totally condemned) is much SMALLER and pales in comparison to the number of radical Muslims on this earth. Just the other day a "judge" in Saudi Arabia upheld the marriage of a 47 yo man to an 8 year old girl. How disgusting! And this happens all over the Muslim world. Sure you can cite me some wacky mormons or some crazy Christian sects living in Texas on some secluded ranch but in terms of sheer NUMBERS there is no comparison. I will tell you the difference Richard Vajs: The difference is simple. It is a purely mathamatical difference. The NUMBER of radical Christians, Jews, and Hindus (while they should be totally condemned) is much SMALLER and pales in comparison to the number of radical Muslims on this earth. Just the other day a “judge” in Saudi Arabia upheld the marriage of a 47 yo man to an 8 year old girl. How disgusting! And this happens all over the Muslim world. Sure you can cite me some wacky mormons or some crazy Christian sects living in Texas on some secluded ranch but in terms of sheer NUMBERS there is no comparison.

]]> By: Jeremy Sapienza http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165427 Jeremy Sapienza Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:22:14 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165427 Clearly you did not read the post. If you had, you would have seem where I specifically preempted such a response. Clearly you did not read the post. If you had, you would have seem where I specifically preempted such a response.

]]> By: liberranter http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165425 liberranter Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:59:39 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165425 <i>How exactly do you propose we fight and win ...a war [against radical Islam,] Tim?</i> Why, but ceding, without question, the few of our rights still intact to the omnipotent federal government and giving them absolute power to do anything they please, whenever they please, to whomever they please; THAT's how. After all, it's for our own national good. I think that's a pretty fair summation of Tim's position on just about everything, if his responses to every other thread in this blog are any indication. How exactly do you propose we fight and win …a war [against radical Islam,] Tim?

Why, but ceding, without question, the few of our rights still intact to the omnipotent federal government and giving them absolute power to do anything they please, whenever they please, to whomever they please; THAT’s how. After all, it’s for our own national good.

I think that’s a pretty fair summation of Tim’s position on just about everything, if his responses to every other thread in this blog are any indication.

]]> By: liberranter http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165424 liberranter Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:53:01 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165424 Ultimately, it's the freedom to do what the federal government orders you to do, or else face imprisonment, loss of property, death, or all three at its hands. Ultimately, it’s the freedom to do what the federal government orders you to do, or else face imprisonment, loss of property, death, or all three at its hands.

]]> By: richard vajs http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/23/first-amendment-takes-another-hit/comment-page-1/#comment-165423 richard vajs Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:45:23 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5039#comment-165423 Tim R, If we are at war with radical Islam, then we should also be at war with radical Judaism, radical Christianism and even radical Hinduism. All of these radical religious sects have in common a hostility to tolerance, a keenness for force and bloodshed and a certainty that they (and they alone) are correct. Tell me what is the difference between a Jewish "settler" who throws rocks at Palestinian schoolkids and an Islamic mullah patrolling the streets of Kabul looking to whip women dressed in Western clothes? Or Christian Zionists cheering on Israel's dropping of cluster bombs on innocent Lebanese? Or the difference between Muslims burning a train full of Hindus or Hindus going door-to-door killing innocent Muslims? Tim R, you will never grow beyond your provincial attitudes until you broaden your mind to see the whole truth and not just "root for the home team". Tim R,
If we are at war with radical Islam, then we should also be at war with radical Judaism, radical Christianism and even radical Hinduism. All of these radical religious sects have in common a hostility to tolerance, a keenness for force and bloodshed and a certainty that they (and they alone) are correct. Tell me what is the difference between a Jewish “settler” who throws rocks at Palestinian schoolkids and an Islamic mullah patrolling the streets of Kabul looking to whip women dressed in Western clothes? Or Christian Zionists cheering on Israel’s dropping of cluster bombs on innocent Lebanese? Or the difference between Muslims burning a train full of Hindus or Hindus going door-to-door killing innocent Muslims?
Tim R, you will never grow beyond your provincial attitudes until you broaden your mind to see the whole truth and not just “root for the home team”.

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