Comments on: The Spineless Huffington Post Gives ‘Equal Time’ http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:25:33 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: C.C.Madsen http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-178051 C.C.Madsen Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:25:46 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-178051 If it gives you any solace, the Huffington post moderators block most of my posts even though I don't use foul language or call anyone names. They block my comments whenever they don't support the far left tone of the particular blog. If it gives you any solace, the Huffington post moderators block most of my posts even though I don't use foul language or call anyone names. They block my comments whenever they don't support the far left tone of the particular blog.

]]> By: America http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-174108 America Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:27:53 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-174108 Fuck you Commie bastards Fuck you Commie bastards

]]> By: File shredder http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-167140 File shredder Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:01:16 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-167140 Living in Florida there was an urgent need of shredder in the office so I called up the saleman who told me there was No sales tax on purchases delivered out of California! 10 year warranty on cutting heads & 1 year warranty on mechanical parts (parts only)! Living in Florida there was an urgent need of shredder in the office so I called up the saleman who told me there was No sales tax on purchases delivered out of California! 10 year warranty on cutting heads & 1 year warranty on mechanical parts (parts only)!

]]> By: Paper Shredders for Sale http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-167139 Paper Shredders for Sale Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:00:49 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-167139 The saleman told me from whom I bought the shredder. All office shredders roll on casters for convenient sharing among offices. Every shredder model has a 10-year warranty on cutting heads and can take staples and paper clips which saves office stationary too. The saleman told me from whom I bought the shredder. All office shredders roll on casters for convenient sharing among offices. Every shredder model has a 10-year warranty on cutting heads and can take staples and paper clips which saves office stationary too.

]]> By: Paper Shredders Ratings http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-167138 Paper Shredders Ratings Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:00:21 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-167138 Working and maintaining security throughout the office. I Placed shredder next to the copier or printer, these shredder models will stop information leak before it starts. Working and maintaining security throughout the office. I Placed shredder next to the copier or printer, these shredder models will stop information leak before it starts.

]]> By: Sean http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-166166 Sean Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:39:57 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-166166 <i>“Majority” means more than 1/2. As of today, Israel has diplomatic relations with 3 Arab countries: Egypt and Jordon and Mauritania and trade relations with Qatar. So generously applied that would hardly be a majority and Israel’s relations with Egypt and Jordan are far from “normalized” and they are certainly not allies.</i> My mistake. I meant the majority of neighboring states, meaning Egypt and Jordan. Under Israeli law, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia are considered enemy nations, so it is rather difficult to have fully normalized relations under such circumstances. As for being "allies" with Jordan and Egypt, both these countries have been so complicit with Israel's occupation of the West Bank and siege of Gaza as to constitute allies. Israel's siege would not be effective without the collaboration of Egypt. <i> As far as Hamas saying anything about accepting the State of Israel (on any terms) let alone repeatedly? Wow. I couldn’t find any evidence or support for that one. Your own link suggests only vaguely that Hamas has “not ruled out” a “truce”. Everything else they do and say (repeatedly) indicates a genocidal hatred not only of Israel but of all Jews.</i> Bullshit. Here is what Hamas's leader has to say on the matter: "Nonetheless, we in Hamas, like most of the Palestinian factions, have accepted the idea of a state with the borders of June 4, 1967. (6) However, we have said that we will not recognise Israel. Why? Because the Palestinian people are convinced that this land on which Israel exists is their own land. So, while they accept a state with the borders of 1967, they do not want to give legitimacy to those who occupied their lands 60 or 70 years ago. So, the formula is simply this: if through politics we have accepted a state with the borders of 1967, why should we be forced to renounce our beliefs and feelings and recognise Israel?" "If a Muslim comes to attack me and oppress me and take away my home and my rights, I will fight him, and the same applies to Christians and Jews. We do not resist Israelis because they are Jewish, we fight them because they are occupiers." So Hamas is willing to recognize the existence of an Israeli state within the 1967 borders without recognizing the "right" of that state to claim the territory of the Palestinains. Their antagonism to Israel is not based on the fact that the Israelis are Jews, but they are in occupation of lands the Palestinians rightly view as their own. To understand why recognition of Israel's "right to exist" as a Jewish majority state, as mandated under Israeli law, Lawrence of Cyberia has an excellent analysis of what that phrase means to the Palestinians: http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2007/03/eggs_fail_to_re.html "Israel's right to exist" is code for a very specific demand. It isn't asking the Palestinians to recognize that the state of Israel exists and has the right to security within mutually agreed borders (which is essentially what the PLO has accepted). And it doesn't mean that the Palestinians must recognize an Israeli state where Jewish and non-Jewish citizens alike enjoy full rights of citizenship (as proposed in the partition resolution of 1947, in which "Jewish Palestine" was essentially a binational state). When Israel and its supporters demand that Palestinians must "recognize Israel's right to exist" they specifically mean that Palestinians must acknowledge Israel's "right" to exist as a Jewish state on the lands of former Mandate Palestine." "While every nation's tragedies are unique, the fact is that the Palestinians are not the only people who have had their modern national consciousness shaped by catastrophe. African-Americans have been shaped by slavery, Jewish Israelis by the Holocaust, and present-day South Africans by apartheid. But Palestinians are the only people that are told they must recognize the "rightness" of the catastrophe that befell them. And we demand this because, in the U.S., Zionism is the prism through which we look at the Arab-Israeli conflict. For us, Zionism is worthy and normative, and it is very difficult for us to acknowledge that for the people who have been – and inevitably had to be – on the receiving end of it, Zionism is cruel, and violent, and racist. But try to imagine what you would think if you heard someone demand that – in the interests of reconciliation with their former oppressors – African-Americans must acknowledge not only that the slave trade existed, but that it had a "right" to exist. Or that black south Africans must recognize the "right" of apartheid to exist. Or Jews, the Holocaust. Just by describing the scenario, we can see that we would be demanding something grotesque. But we take it for granted that the Palestinians must do it; and condemn them for anti-semitism when they refuse." <i>Hamas has never observed a true cease fire</i> Bullshit. Hamas observed a unilateral ceasfire for two years in the face of extreme Israeli attempts to provoke them into a response including assasination of their leaders and multiple attacks against civilians, culminating in the beach massacre. It is only then that they resumed their rocket attacks. <i>and the beach “massacre” was not likely caused by Israelis; the evidence shows that it was likely caused by unexploded ordinance quite probably left by Hamas on the beach and deftly turned into anti-Israel propaganda absorbed by those (like you Sean) whose credulity with regard to Israel’s enemies is perfectly balanced by your incredulity of Israel and its supporters</i> The "evidence" shows that is was "not likely" caused by Israelis but "probably" due to unexploded ordinance (a whole barrage worth, as the area was pockmarked by shellholes identical to the one where the family was killed) left by Hamas. Doesn't seem like your "evidence" is very strong but I'd love to see it for the laugh value. Apparently, not one but multiple unexploded shells scattered over a wide area simultaneously detonated themselves just as a family came by. This is how israel describes what happened: "The military now says that it fired six shells on to and around the beach where Huda Ghalia's family died, with one of them falling about 100 yards away, but by coincidence a mine planted by Hamas exploded in the same area at the same time. The military backs its claim with analysis of aerial photographs, shrapnel and what it is says is intelligence that Hamas has mined Gaza beaches to stop Israeli forces landing, although it is not known to have used such a tactic before." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/13/israel3 Kind of like how the weapons allegedly carried by a group of alleged militants allegedly exploded destroying a Palestinian home and the family inside just as an Israeli tank shell hit them, with the shell doing no damage other than igniting the explosives. Tank rounds are otherwise perfectly safe for use around people's homes, and it's ok to fire an artillery barrage within 100 yards of a family picnic so long as you take pains not to detonate any Hamas mines that might be lying about the area and which have a tendency to explode at the worst possible times. It is laughable, comic opera apologies like these that shape my credulity towards Israel and its supporters. My credulity with regards to Israel and its supporters is also shaped by my experience of the extreme racism and viciousness expressed by those same supporters towards the Palestinians and anyone who disagrees with Israel's propaganda (aka, "anti-Semites"), the fact that Israeli's propaganda is so often debunked by reliable reports from human rights organziations, the UN and from Israeli and Jewish sources who are not likely to be motivated by "anti-Semitism," and through hard evidence in the form of videos, photos, documents and eyewtiness reports from Israeli participants and obervers of israeli war crimes. It is shaped by the tendency of Israel and its supports to use the most, facile, inane, and fatuous arguments to justify Israel's human rights abuses and to consider no lie, however low or obvious, to be beneath them in trying to advance Israel's agitprop agenda. I know this is hard for Israel and it supporters to understand, but when you blatantly lie about and smear your critics by labeling them anti-Semites who want to kill all the Jews, they are not likely to believe anything you have to say after that. Neither is anyone else with half a brain. After a while, a thinking person is left with little choice but to regard anything from Israel and it supporters as pure bullshit at face value until a high standard of proof is offered to the contrary. It rarely is. <i>(odd, since Israel is a Democratic country with a free press and an independent judiciary to balance the government, while Hamastan is, well, not). I’ve said enough, although I would like to add that the fighting at Deir Yassin took place during war time if not strictly speaking during the war of independence since the mandate was not over yet."</i> A democracy is a form of government for all its citizens, not just some. Israel is by law a Jewish majority state with an artificially gerrymandered (through ethnic cleansing) Jewish majority that nullifies any vote the minority Palestinians might exercise. Israeli citizenship is available for any Jew anywhere, but denied to Palestinians who lived on the land for thousands of years but were driven out by force. That is not democracy, but apartheid. “Majority” means more than 1/2. As of today, Israel has diplomatic relations with 3 Arab countries: Egypt and Jordon and Mauritania and trade relations with Qatar. So generously applied that would hardly be a majority and Israel’s relations with Egypt and Jordan are far from “normalized” and they are certainly not allies.

My mistake. I meant the majority of neighboring states, meaning Egypt and Jordan. Under Israeli law, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia are considered enemy nations, so it is rather difficult to have fully normalized relations under such circumstances. As for being “allies” with Jordan and Egypt, both these countries have been so complicit with Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and siege of Gaza as to constitute allies. Israel’s siege would not be effective without the collaboration of Egypt.

As far as Hamas saying anything about accepting the State of Israel (on any terms) let alone repeatedly? Wow. I couldn’t find any evidence or support for that one. Your own link suggests only vaguely that Hamas has “not ruled out” a “truce”. Everything else they do and say (repeatedly) indicates a genocidal hatred not only of Israel but of all Jews.

Bullshit.

Here is what Hamas’s leader has to say on the matter:

“Nonetheless, we in Hamas, like most of the Palestinian factions, have accepted the idea of a state with the borders of June 4, 1967. (6) However, we have said that we will not recognise Israel. Why? Because the Palestinian people are convinced that this land on which Israel exists is their own land. So, while they accept a state with the borders of 1967, they do not want to give legitimacy to those who occupied their lands 60 or 70 years ago. So, the formula is simply this: if through politics we have accepted a state with the borders of 1967, why should we be forced to renounce our beliefs and feelings and recognise Israel?”

“If a Muslim comes to attack me and oppress me and take away my home and my rights, I will fight him, and the same applies to Christians and Jews. We do not resist Israelis because they are Jewish, we fight them because they are occupiers.”

So Hamas is willing to recognize the existence of an Israeli state within the 1967 borders without recognizing the “right” of that state to claim the territory of the Palestinains. Their antagonism to Israel is not based on the fact that the Israelis are Jews, but they are in occupation of lands the Palestinians rightly view as their own.

To understand why recognition of Israel’s “right to exist” as a Jewish majority state, as mandated under Israeli law, Lawrence of Cyberia has an excellent analysis of what that phrase means to the Palestinians:

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2007/03/eggs_fail_to_re.html

“Israel’s right to exist” is code for a very specific demand. It isn’t asking the Palestinians to recognize that the state of Israel exists and has the right to security within mutually agreed borders (which is essentially what the PLO has accepted). And it doesn’t mean that the Palestinians must recognize an Israeli state where Jewish and non-Jewish citizens alike enjoy full rights of citizenship (as proposed in the partition resolution of 1947, in which “Jewish Palestine” was essentially a binational state). When Israel and its supporters demand that Palestinians must “recognize Israel’s right to exist” they specifically mean that Palestinians must acknowledge Israel’s “right” to exist as a Jewish state on the lands of former Mandate Palestine.”

“While every nation’s tragedies are unique, the fact is that the Palestinians are not the only people who have had their modern national consciousness shaped by catastrophe. African-Americans have been shaped by slavery, Jewish Israelis by the Holocaust, and present-day South Africans by apartheid. But Palestinians are the only people that are told they must recognize the “rightness” of the catastrophe that befell them. And we demand this because, in the U.S., Zionism is the prism through which we look at the Arab-Israeli conflict. For us, Zionism is worthy and normative, and it is very difficult for us to acknowledge that for the people who have been – and inevitably had to be – on the receiving end of it, Zionism is cruel, and violent, and racist. But try to imagine what you would think if you heard someone demand that – in the interests of reconciliation with their former oppressors – African-Americans must acknowledge not only that the slave trade existed, but that it had a “right” to exist. Or that black south Africans must recognize the “right” of apartheid to exist. Or Jews, the Holocaust. Just by describing the scenario, we can see that we would be demanding something grotesque. But we take it for granted that the Palestinians must do it; and condemn them for anti-semitism when they refuse.”

Hamas has never observed a true cease fire

Bullshit. Hamas observed a unilateral ceasfire for two years in the face of extreme Israeli attempts to provoke them into a response including assasination of their leaders and multiple attacks against civilians, culminating in the beach massacre. It is only then that they resumed their rocket attacks.

and the beach “massacre” was not likely caused by Israelis; the evidence shows that it was likely caused by unexploded ordinance quite probably left by Hamas on the beach and deftly turned into anti-Israel propaganda absorbed by those (like you Sean) whose credulity with regard to Israel’s enemies is perfectly balanced by your incredulity of Israel and its supporters

The “evidence” shows that is was “not likely” caused by Israelis but “probably” due to unexploded ordinance (a whole barrage worth, as the area was pockmarked by shellholes identical to the one where the family was killed) left by Hamas. Doesn’t seem like your “evidence” is very strong but I’d love to see it for the laugh value. Apparently, not one but multiple unexploded shells scattered over a wide area simultaneously detonated themselves just as a family came by.

This is how israel describes what happened:

“The military now says that it fired six shells on to and around the beach where Huda Ghalia’s family died, with one of them falling about 100 yards away, but by coincidence a mine planted by Hamas exploded in the same area at the same time. The military backs its claim with analysis of aerial photographs, shrapnel and what it is says is intelligence that Hamas has mined Gaza beaches to stop Israeli forces landing, although it is not known to have used such a tactic before.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/13/israel3

Kind of like how the weapons allegedly carried by a group of alleged militants allegedly exploded destroying a Palestinian home and the family inside just as an Israeli tank shell hit them, with the shell doing no damage other than igniting the explosives. Tank rounds are otherwise perfectly safe for use around people’s homes, and it’s ok to fire an artillery barrage within 100 yards of a family picnic so long as you take pains not to detonate any Hamas mines that might be lying about the area and which have a tendency to explode at the worst possible times.

It is laughable, comic opera apologies like these that shape my credulity towards Israel and its supporters. My credulity with regards to Israel and its supporters is also shaped by my experience of the extreme racism and viciousness expressed by those same supporters towards the Palestinians and anyone who disagrees with Israel’s propaganda (aka, “anti-Semites”), the fact that Israeli’s propaganda is so often debunked by reliable reports from human rights organziations, the UN and from Israeli and Jewish sources who are not likely to be motivated by “anti-Semitism,” and through hard evidence in the form of videos, photos, documents and eyewtiness reports from Israeli participants and obervers of israeli war crimes. It is shaped by the tendency of Israel and its supports to use the most, facile, inane, and fatuous arguments to justify Israel’s human rights abuses and to consider no lie, however low or obvious, to be beneath them in trying to advance Israel’s agitprop agenda.

I know this is hard for Israel and it supporters to understand, but when you blatantly lie about and smear your critics by labeling them anti-Semites who want to kill all the Jews, they are not likely to believe anything you have to say after that. Neither is anyone else with half a brain.

After a while, a thinking person is left with little choice but to regard anything from Israel and it supporters as pure bullshit at face value until a high standard of proof is offered to the contrary. It rarely is.

(odd, since Israel is a Democratic country with a free press and an independent judiciary to balance the government, while Hamastan is, well, not). I’ve said enough, although I would like to add that the fighting at Deir Yassin took place during war time if not strictly speaking during the war of independence since the mandate was not over yet.”

A democracy is a form of government for all its citizens, not just some. Israel is by law a Jewish majority state with an artificially gerrymandered (through ethnic cleansing) Jewish majority that nullifies any vote the minority Palestinians might exercise. Israeli citizenship is available for any Jew anywhere, but denied to Palestinians who lived on the land for thousands of years but were driven out by force. That is not democracy, but apartheid.

]]> By: Ariel Wineman http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-166142 Ariel Wineman Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:33:52 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-166142 Sean: 5 minutes on Wikipedia and you would have saved yourself much embarrassment. "Majority" means more than 1/2. As of today, Israel has diplomatic relations with 3 Arab countries: Egypt and Jordon and Mauritania and trade relations with Qatar. So generously applied that would hardly be a majority and Israel's relations with Egypt and Jordan are far from "normalized" and they are certainly not allies. As far as Hamas saying anything about accepting the State of Israel (on any terms) let alone repeatedly? Wow. I couldn't find any evidence or support for that one. Your own link suggests only vaguely that Hamas has "not ruled out" a "truce". Everything else they do and say (repeatedly) indicates a genocidal hatred not only of Israel but of all Jews. I suggest you spend sometime watching Hamas TV (it is available in English). Hamas has never observed a true cease fire and the beach "massacre" was not likely caused by Israelis; the evidence shows that it was likely caused by unexploded ordinance quite probably left by Hamas on the beach and deftly turned into anti-Israel propaganda absorbed by those (like you Sean) whose credulity with regard to Israel's enemies is perfectly balanced by your incredulity of Israel and its supporters (odd, since Israel is a Democratic country with a free press and an independent judiciary to balance the government, while Hamastan is, well, not). I've said enough, although I would like to add that the fighting at Deir Yassin took place during war time if not strictly speaking during the war of independence since the mandate was not over yet. Sean:
5 minutes on Wikipedia and you would have saved yourself much embarrassment.
“Majority” means more than 1/2. As of today, Israel has diplomatic relations with 3 Arab countries: Egypt and Jordon and Mauritania and trade relations with Qatar. So generously applied that would hardly be a majority and Israel’s relations with Egypt and Jordan are far from “normalized” and they are certainly not allies. As far as Hamas saying anything about accepting the State of Israel (on any terms) let alone repeatedly? Wow. I couldn’t find any evidence or support for that one. Your own link suggests only vaguely that Hamas has “not ruled out” a “truce”. Everything else they do and say (repeatedly) indicates a genocidal hatred not only of Israel but of all Jews. I suggest you spend sometime watching Hamas TV (it is available in English). Hamas has never observed a true cease fire and the beach “massacre” was not likely caused by Israelis; the evidence shows that it was likely caused by unexploded ordinance quite probably left by Hamas on the beach and deftly turned into anti-Israel propaganda absorbed by those (like you Sean) whose credulity with regard to Israel’s enemies is perfectly balanced by your incredulity of Israel and its supporters (odd, since Israel is a Democratic country with a free press and an independent judiciary to balance the government, while Hamastan is, well, not). I’ve said enough, although I would like to add that the fighting at Deir Yassin took place during war time if not strictly speaking during the war of independence since the mandate was not over yet.

]]> By: Sean http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-166111 Sean Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:15:57 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-166111 <b>Israel is a tiny country the size of the State of New Jersey (about 16,000 sq miles)and is completely surrounded by dozens of much larger Arab Muslim nations that are hostile to her and some of whom do not even recognize her right to exist. True or False?</b> FALSE. Israel is not surrounded by hostile Arab enemies. The majority of Arab states have normalized relations with Israel, and those that haven't, such as Syria, have repeatedly said they will do so on return of some or all of the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 war. <b>HAMAS does not recognize Israel’s right to exist and calls for her total destruction. True or False?</b> False. Hamas has repeatedly stated they will accept the existence of Israel in exchange for recognition of a Palestinian state. It is Israel that continues to refuse the right of the Palestinians to their own state. http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3886&l=1 <b>Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and in the years following HAMAS has launched thousands of rocket attacks at Israel civilians. True or False?</b> False. Israel never ended its occupation, but continued to impose an illegal blockade collectively punishing the Palestinians and put this blockade into effect before Hamas was even elected in Gaza. Hamas observed a unilateral ceasefire at the start of the blockade during which time Israel continued to attack and kill Palestinian civilians in the West Bank and Gaza in an effort to promote a response form Hamas. Hamas ended its ceasefire when an Israeli gunboat massacred a Palestinian family picnicking on a beach. A second, bilateral ceasefire went into effect 6 months ago, but as evidence has shown, it was Israel that first violated this ceasefire not only by tightening its illegal siege on Gaza rather than opening border crossings as agreed but also with an armed incursion with tanks and warplanes which killed 6 Palestinians. In addition, Israel planned the current assault even before the ceasefire went into effect, and began its diplomatic and PR campaign to persuade and influence the media and government officials months before Hamas retaliated against Israel's armed incursion, indicating the Israelis planned to violate this ceasefire all along and were simply using it to buy time to gather support for their attack. http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-ceasefire-at+risk-20081105 <b>Israeli civilians have been killed by said attacks. True or false?</b> True. A total of 20 Israeli civilians have been killed in Hamas' retaliatory strikes since the siege on Gaza began. In that same period, Israel has killed over 1700 Palestinians as well as systematically starved, humiliated and brutalized the entire populace of Gaza. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/israel-gaza-hamas-hidden-agenda <b>Under principles of International Law any nation has the right of self-defense. True or False.</b> True. But Israel is maintaining an illegal occupation of the West Bank and illegal siege of Gaza. International law does not recognize military acts carried out by an aggressor in support of an illegal occupation or siege to be "self-defense." It does however recognize the right of a people under an illegal occupation to form an armed resistance against that occupation. <b>Israel is a nation of roughly 5 million Jews and is totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs Muslims. True or false?</b> False. Israel is "totally surrounded" by a handful or Arab countries, two of which are essentially allies of Israel. Israel is not "srurrounded" by Pakistan, or Morocco, or Tunisia. <b>At least some of the disputed land in question was actually purchased by wealthy Jews such as Sir Moses Maimonedes in the late 19th and early 20th century. True or False?</b> False. The only disputed land lies beyond the 1967 Green line, in the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and Shaaba farms in Lebanon. <b>In November of 1947 the General Assembly of the United Nations voted for a two state partition plan. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it. True or False?</b> False. Israel began its ethnic cleansing of Arabs from areas that were slated to be part of the Palestinians side of the partition before it's declaration of independence or the 1948 war even began, indicating they had no intention of honoring the partition and Ben Gurion has been quoted as saying they did not. http://www.cactus48.com/partition.html <b>Up until 1967, the Gaza strip was “occupied” by a fellow Arab-Muslim nation, Egypt. Yet there were not rocket attacks or terrorist attacks on Egypt. True or False?</b> Was Egypt ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and building apartheid "Egyptian-only" settlements in their place? That might explain the lack of attacks. <b>The conditions of Palestinians in Gaza were no better when they were under Egyption control. True or False?</b> They were far better, in that the Egyptians were not systematically starving the people of Gaza. <b>On May 14th 1948, Israel was declared an independant nation. The next day, all the Arab nations attacked her. True or False?</b> False. Israel began the ethnic cleansing of Arabs before its declaration of "independence", and the Deir Yassim massacre also occurred before the war began. <b>Israel won that war and subsequent wars in 1956, 1967 and 1973. True or false?</b> True. <b>In the course of human history, the winning party in a war generally gets to keep the land and spoils and gets to dictate terms of peace (examples include the numerous wars between white european settlers and the native american Indians, the American Revolution, the Mexican Amercian War, the Spanish American war, the Falkland Islands war, etc etc etc. True or false?</b> True, but that was before the creation of the UN and international law, which emerged largely as the result of Nazi aggression in WWII. International law does not currently recognize the right to acquire territory through war, whether that war is offensive or defensive. It only recognizes the right to defend your own territory against an aggressor , not the right to acquire the aggressor's territory. UN Resolution 242, which requires Israel to withdraw from the territories it conquered in the 1967 war, explicitly reaffirms that there is no right to territorial acquisition through war. Israel is a tiny country the size of the State of New Jersey (about 16,000 sq miles)and is completely surrounded by dozens of much larger Arab Muslim nations that are hostile to her and some of whom do not even recognize her right to exist. True or False?

FALSE. Israel is not surrounded by hostile Arab enemies. The majority of Arab states have normalized relations with Israel, and those that haven’t, such as Syria, have repeatedly said they will do so on return of some or all of the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 war.

HAMAS does not recognize Israel’s right to exist and calls for her total destruction. True or False?

False. Hamas has repeatedly stated they will accept the existence of Israel in exchange for recognition of a Palestinian state. It is Israel that continues to refuse the right of the Palestinians to their own state.

http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3886&l=1

Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and in the years following HAMAS has launched thousands of rocket attacks at Israel civilians. True or False?

False. Israel never ended its occupation, but continued to impose an illegal blockade collectively punishing the Palestinians and put this blockade into effect before Hamas was even elected in Gaza. Hamas observed a unilateral ceasefire at the start of the blockade during which time Israel continued to attack and kill Palestinian civilians in the West Bank and Gaza in an effort to promote a response form Hamas. Hamas ended its ceasefire when an Israeli gunboat massacred a Palestinian family picnicking on a beach. A second, bilateral ceasefire went into effect 6 months ago, but as evidence has shown, it was Israel that first violated this ceasefire not only by tightening its illegal siege on Gaza rather than opening border crossings as agreed but also with an armed incursion with tanks and warplanes which killed 6 Palestinians. In addition, Israel planned the current assault even before the ceasefire went into effect, and began its diplomatic and PR campaign to persuade and influence the media and government officials months before Hamas retaliated against Israel’s armed incursion, indicating the Israelis planned to violate this ceasefire all along and were simply using it to buy time to gather support for their attack.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-ceasefire-at+risk-20081105

Israeli civilians have been killed by said attacks. True or false?

True. A total of 20 Israeli civilians have been killed in Hamas’ retaliatory strikes since the siege on Gaza began. In that same period, Israel has killed over 1700 Palestinians as well as systematically starved, humiliated and brutalized the entire populace of Gaza.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/israel-gaza-hamas-hidden-agenda

Under principles of International Law any nation has the right of self-defense. True or False.

True. But Israel is maintaining an illegal occupation of the West Bank and illegal siege of Gaza. International law does not recognize military acts carried out by an aggressor in support of an illegal occupation or siege to be “self-defense.” It does however recognize the right of a people under an illegal occupation to form an armed resistance against that occupation.

Israel is a nation of roughly 5 million Jews and is totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs Muslims. True or false?

False. Israel is “totally surrounded” by a handful or Arab countries, two of which are essentially allies of Israel. Israel is not “srurrounded” by Pakistan, or Morocco, or Tunisia.

At least some of the disputed land in question was actually purchased by wealthy Jews such as Sir Moses Maimonedes in the late 19th and early 20th century. True or False?

False. The only disputed land lies beyond the 1967 Green line, in the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and Shaaba farms in Lebanon.

In November of 1947 the General Assembly of the United Nations voted for a two state partition plan. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it. True or False?

False. Israel began its ethnic cleansing of Arabs from areas that were slated to be part of the Palestinians side of the partition before it’s declaration of independence or the 1948 war even began, indicating they had no intention of honoring the partition and Ben Gurion has been quoted as saying they did not.

http://www.cactus48.com/partition.html

Up until 1967, the Gaza strip was “occupied” by a fellow Arab-Muslim nation, Egypt. Yet there were not rocket attacks or terrorist attacks on Egypt. True or False?

Was Egypt ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and building apartheid “Egyptian-only” settlements in their place? That might explain the lack of attacks.

The conditions of Palestinians in Gaza were no better when they were under Egyption control. True or False?

They were far better, in that the Egyptians were not systematically starving the people of Gaza.

On May 14th 1948, Israel was declared an independant nation. The next day, all the Arab nations attacked her. True or False?

False. Israel began the ethnic cleansing of Arabs before its declaration of “independence”, and the Deir Yassim massacre also occurred before the war began.

Israel won that war and subsequent wars in 1956, 1967 and 1973. True or false?
True.

In the course of human history, the winning party in a war generally gets to keep the land and spoils and gets to dictate terms of peace (examples include the numerous wars between white european settlers and the native american Indians, the American Revolution, the Mexican Amercian War, the Spanish American war, the Falkland Islands war, etc etc etc. True or false?

True, but that was before the creation of the UN and international law, which emerged largely as the result of Nazi aggression in WWII. International law does not currently recognize the right to acquire territory through war, whether that war is offensive or defensive. It only recognizes the right to defend your own territory against an aggressor , not the right to acquire the aggressor’s territory. UN Resolution 242, which requires Israel to withdraw from the territories it conquered in the 1967 war, explicitly reaffirms that there is no right to territorial acquisition through war.

]]> By: Tim R. http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-166090 Tim R. Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:17:30 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-166090 Can someone please explain a few things to me? And perhaps do it in a mature way, without insults or name calling? Here are some questions. They are "true/false" questions so I'd like you to first answer true or false and then you can explicate. Israel is a tiny country the size of the State of New Jersey (about 16,000 sq miles)and is completly surrounded by dozens of much larger Arab Muslim nations that are hostile to her and some of whom do not even recognize her right to exist. True or False? HAMAS does not recognize Israel's right to exist and calls for her total destruction. True or False? Israel completey pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and in the years following HAMAS has launched thousands of rocket attacks at Israel civilians. True or False? Israeli civilians have been killed by said attacks. True or false? Under principles of International Law any nation has the right of self-defense. True or False. Israel is a nation of roughly 5 million Jews and is totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs Muslims. True or false? At least some of the disputed land in question was actually purchased by wealthy Jews such as Sir Moses Maimonedes in the late 19th and early 20th century. True or False? In Novemeber of 1947 the General Assembly of the United Nations voted for a two state partition plan. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it. True or False? Up until 1967, the Gaza strip was "occupied" by a fellow Arab-Muslim nation, Egypt. Yet there were not rocket attacks or terrorist attacks on Egypt. True or False? The conditions of Palestinians in Gaza were no better when they were under Egyption control. True or False? On May 14th 1948, Israel was declared an independant nation. The next day, all the Arab nations attacked her. True or False? Israel won that war and subsequent wars in 1956, 1967 and 1973. True or false? In the course of human history, the winning party in a war generally gets to keep the land and spoils and gets to dictate terms of peace (examples include the numerous wars between white european settlers and the native american Indians, the American Revolution, the Mexican Amercian War, the Spanish American war, the Falkland Islands war, etc etc etc. True or false? So I don't get it. Israel is always the bad guy, right? But it seems to me that facts tend to tell a different story. I know, I know, I am a zionist and I hate America and I am an Israel spy and I am a racist and I hate all Palestinians. Save the insults and give me something constructive if you care to respond. Can someone please explain a few things to me? And perhaps do it in a mature way, without insults or name calling? Here are some questions. They are “true/false” questions so I’d like you to first answer true or false and then you can explicate.

Israel is a tiny country the size of the State of New Jersey (about 16,000 sq miles)and is completly surrounded by dozens of much larger Arab Muslim nations that are hostile to her and some of whom do not even recognize her right to exist. True or False?

HAMAS does not recognize Israel’s right to exist and calls for her total destruction. True or False?

Israel completey pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and in the years following HAMAS has launched thousands of rocket attacks at Israel civilians. True or False?

Israeli civilians have been killed by said attacks. True or false?

Under principles of International Law any nation has the right of self-defense. True or False.

Israel is a nation of roughly 5 million Jews and is totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs Muslims. True or false?

At least some of the disputed land in question was actually purchased by wealthy Jews such as Sir Moses Maimonedes in the late 19th and early 20th century. True or False?

In Novemeber of 1947 the General Assembly of the United Nations voted for a two state partition plan. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it. True or False?

Up until 1967, the Gaza strip was “occupied” by a fellow Arab-Muslim nation, Egypt. Yet there were not rocket attacks or terrorist attacks on Egypt. True or False?

The conditions of Palestinians in Gaza were no better when they were under Egyption control. True or False?

On May 14th 1948, Israel was declared an independant nation. The next day, all the Arab nations attacked her. True or False?

Israel won that war and subsequent wars in 1956, 1967 and 1973. True or false?

In the course of human history, the winning party in a war generally gets to keep the land and spoils and gets to dictate terms of peace (examples include the numerous wars between white european settlers and the native american Indians, the American Revolution, the Mexican Amercian War, the Spanish American war, the Falkland Islands war, etc etc etc. True or false?

So I don’t get it. Israel is always the bad guy, right? But it seems to me that facts tend to tell a different story. I know, I know, I am a zionist and I hate America and I am an Israel spy and I am a racist and I hate all Palestinians. Save the insults and give me something constructive if you care to respond.

]]> By: Sean http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-2/#comment-166075 Sean Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:56:36 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-166075 Huffpo is a freaking joke. I see they didn't bother to put a disclaimer on this steaming pile of racist Zionist horseshit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/stop-this-vicious-slaught_b_155039.html I attempted to refute the writer but two of my posts were censored, as they almost always are whenever I post anything critical of Israel. They did let one through, which is the comment on Israeli historian Baruch Kimmerling debunking the alleged Palestinian connection to the Nazis via the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem--a favorite Zionist nugget. Interestingly, while I was posting I reloaded the page and noticed that a new, pro-Israel post was chosen as a "Huffpost's Pick" within the space of 4 minutes after its posting, on a Sunday, even though it's pure bullshit as anyone familiar with the facts knows. While I am sure many of Huffpo's "voluntary moderators" are GIYUS types, do they now get to determine which posts get Huffpo's version of an "editor's choice" rating as well as which comments do and don't get through? Huffpo is a freaking joke. I see they didn’t bother to put a disclaimer on this steaming pile of racist Zionist horseshit:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/stop-this-vicious-slaught_b_155039.html

I attempted to refute the writer but two of my posts were censored, as they almost always are whenever I post anything critical of Israel. They did let one through, which is the comment on Israeli historian Baruch Kimmerling debunking the alleged Palestinian connection to the Nazis via the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem–a favorite Zionist nugget.

Interestingly, while I was posting I reloaded the page and noticed that a new, pro-Israel post was chosen as a “Huffpost’s Pick” within the space of 4 minutes after its posting, on a Sunday, even though it’s pure bullshit as anyone familiar with the facts knows. While I am sure many of Huffpo’s “voluntary moderators” are GIYUS types, do they now get to determine which posts get Huffpo’s version of an “editor’s choice” rating as well as which comments do and don’t get through?

]]> By: david monaghan http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-1/#comment-166024 david monaghan Sat, 03 Jan 2009 21:10:32 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-166024 Mike you mis-read my comments He didn't want to leave his country most of his family is their. His father was a hard worker who did well for his family and was able to send them away to be educated as doctors. He came back to work in the hospital in the hight of the troubles. Hamas told his father not to pay any taxes or all his family would be killed. This is in the western bank. The authorites took their money and left them without work or hope and he was told he was going to be arrested. Within that conflict no justice would be served and he had to get out. He as worked harder than you can imagine to support his family in the western bank. There is a lot more to his story that I am not going to say, but he as lived with the war for a long time and I would suggest knows more about the good bad and ugly than the average outsider. This poor little man as you said is a Giant compared to your understanding of what life is realy about in his country Mike you mis-read my comments
He didn’t want to leave his country most of his family is their.
His father was a hard worker who did well for his family and was able to send them away to be educated as doctors.
He came back to work in the hospital in the hight of the troubles.
Hamas told his father not to pay any taxes or all his family would be killed.
This is in the western bank. The authorites took their money and left them without work or hope and he was told he was going to be arrested. Within that conflict no justice would be served and he had to get out. He as worked harder than you can imagine to support his family in the western bank.
There is a lot more to his story that I am not going to say, but he as lived with the war for a long time and I would suggest knows more about the good bad and ugly than the average outsider. This poor little man as you said is a Giant compared to your understanding of what life is realy about in his country

]]> By: Lear K http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/12/31/the-spineless-huffington-post-gives-equal-time/comment-page-1/#comment-166012 Lear K Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:58:53 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5093#comment-166012 It is not just the media that is so baised against the Plaesnians ,even so called American justice system is used to serve Israeli agenda in Palestine by labeling any aid to them as aid to terrorist organization,as the recent case of the Holy Land Foundation,and many muslim chrities taht were shut down and their assets confiscated. Americans, by and large, are so hoodwinked by the terrorism industry that has our government in a stranglehold that truth cannot emerge from its dicta. That is especially so when the truth that struggles to emerge concerns the Palestinian people. Americans believe there is a terrorist behind every bush in Israel. Americans believe that the Palestinian people terrorize the Israeli people (without, of course, pausing to ask themselves how a people who have been ethnically cleansed from all but about 10% of their land, who have no effective government or armed forces, who live in cities with 60% unemployment, whose farmland has been confiscated, and who are packed together in enclaves without sufficient water or electricity or gasoline or food can possibly be a threat to anyone). Americans are simply brainwashed to believe that what is not true is true. And the prosecution in the HLF case made sure that the jury abandoned all ability to think through twisted evidence to find the truth. I will be glad to sit with you and explain exactly how that is true, or you may wait until the appeals court throws the case out." http://theenemyshallnot.blogspot.com/ " It is not just the media that is so baised against the Plaesnians ,even so called American justice system is used to serve Israeli agenda in Palestine by labeling any aid to them as aid to terrorist organization,as the recent case of the Holy Land Foundation,and many muslim chrities taht were shut down and their assets confiscated.

Americans, by and large, are so hoodwinked by the terrorism industry that has our government in a stranglehold that truth cannot emerge from its dicta. That is especially so when the truth that struggles to emerge concerns the Palestinian people. Americans believe there is a terrorist behind every bush in Israel. Americans believe that the Palestinian people terrorize the Israeli people (without, of course, pausing to ask themselves how a people who have been ethnically cleansed from all but about 10% of their land, who have no effective government or armed forces, who live in cities with 60% unemployment, whose farmland has been confiscated, and who are packed together in enclaves without sufficient water or electricity or gasoline or food can possibly be a threat to anyone). Americans are simply brainwashed to believe that what is not true is true. And the prosecution in the HLF case made sure that the jury abandoned all ability to think through twisted evidence to find the truth. I will be glad to sit with you and explain exactly how that is true, or you may wait until the appeals court throws the case out.”

http://theenemyshallnot.blogspot.com/

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