Comments on: Genuine peace and goodwill for the New Year? http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:20:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Obvious Guy Says http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-166034 Obvious Guy Says Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:21:45 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-166034 China is great unless you are healthy practitioner of Falun Gong - then your organs are perfect targets for forced removal after a bit of tenderizing at the end of a baton. China is great unless you are healthy practitioner of Falun Gong – then your organs are perfect targets for forced removal after a bit of tenderizing at the end of a baton.

]]> By: Elaine Meinel Supkis http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-166006 Elaine Meinel Supkis Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:22:06 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-166006 Internally, the US is a total mess. Worse than China. We aren't suppressing Tibetans, we are suppressing Palestinians, and quite violently, too. Internally, the US is a total mess. Worse than China. We aren’t suppressing Tibetans, we are suppressing Palestinians, and quite violently, too.

]]> By: John Lowell http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-166003 John Lowell Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:59:31 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-166003 "In any case what do you want, to fight a war with China over this?" Well one thing couldn't be more clear, you want to fight a war with me over the question, eh, son? You seem to have a remarkable penchant for irrelevancies tonight, Andy, either that or you're tipsy. As a quick re-reading will establish, Chris Baker introduced this thread with a concern about the authenticity of China's interest in peace owing to its unwillingness to end the blocking of Wikipedia. I added one of my own with an objection to their forced abortion policies. Then, suddenly, there you were like a drunken scold on a subway at 2:30 AM demanding to know whether I was thumping the tub for war with China over the question. Get some sleep, son, the New Year's celebration ended two days ago. “In any case what do you want, to fight a war with China over this?”

Well one thing couldn’t be more clear, you want to fight a war with me over the question, eh, son? You seem to have a remarkable penchant for irrelevancies tonight, Andy, either that or you’re tipsy. As a quick re-reading will establish, Chris Baker introduced this thread with a concern about the authenticity of China’s interest in peace owing to its unwillingness to end the blocking of Wikipedia. I added one of my own with an objection to their forced abortion policies. Then, suddenly, there you were like a drunken scold on a subway at 2:30 AM demanding to know whether I was thumping the tub for war with China over the question. Get some sleep, son, the New Year’s celebration ended two days ago.

]]> By: John Lowell http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-166002 John Lowell Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:28:04 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-166002 "The question is which country has a more dangerous, bellicose or aggressive foreign policy." No, Andy, that wasn't the question. The question was whether the Chinese in their own right were to be considered pristine and they are not. That was the focus of this thread as I was discussing it with Tim before you chose to intervene with these stupifying irrelevancies about the United States. The whole matter of these comparisons is a private concern of yours, it had never been an interest of mine and I don't wish to make it one, frankly. “The question is which country has a more dangerous, bellicose or aggressive foreign policy.”

No, Andy, that wasn’t the question. The question was whether the Chinese in their own right were to be considered pristine and they are not. That was the focus of this thread as I was discussing it with Tim before you chose to intervene with these stupifying irrelevancies about the United States. The whole matter of these comparisons is a private concern of yours, it had never been an interest of mine and I don’t wish to make it one, frankly.

]]> By: Andy http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-165999 Andy Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:14:14 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-165999 Yes John, IT WOULD BE AN IRAQI INTERNAL MATTER, if Americans WOULD leave Iraq. I'm glad you can dismiss famine and poverty so easily (you've probably never experienced either). But China will probably have a much higher living standard 100 years from now then other countries that allow unchecked population growth. In any case what do you want, to fight a war with China over this? It's not America's job to decide population growth (or not) in China. Yes John, IT WOULD BE AN IRAQI INTERNAL MATTER, if Americans WOULD leave Iraq. I’m glad you can dismiss famine and poverty so easily (you’ve probably never experienced either). But China will probably have a much higher living standard 100 years from now then other countries that allow unchecked population growth. In any case what do you want, to fight a war with China over this? It’s not America’s job to decide population growth (or not) in China.

]]> By: Andy http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-165998 Andy Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:07:51 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-165998 Huh? When did I say that the Chinese are "venerable spiritual beings"? The question is which country has a more dangerous, bellicose or aggressive foreign policy. Which country has a foreign policy more likely to get its citizens killed? Are there 700 Chinese military bases ringing the globe? Does China spend as much money on "defense" as the rest of the world? Did China invade Iraq on false pretences? As for "bothering" China in ways Canadians don't endorse (I guess Mexicans aren't your friends) how about maintaining troops for decades in South Korea, Okinawa, etc, near her borders. How about agreeing to defend Taiwan against China, an island of no significance to America. How about bombing North Vietnam? How about bombing the Chinese embassy in Serbia? How about spy planes flying over Hainan island (which killed a Chinese pilot). How about American warships not far off Chinese waters? Would America tolerate any of this in reverse? Huh? When did I say that the Chinese are “venerable spiritual beings”? The question is which country has a more dangerous, bellicose or aggressive foreign policy. Which country has a foreign policy more likely to get its citizens killed? Are there 700 Chinese military bases ringing the globe? Does China spend as much money on “defense” as the rest of the world? Did China invade Iraq on false pretences? As for “bothering” China in ways Canadians don’t endorse (I guess Mexicans aren’t your friends) how about maintaining troops for decades in South Korea, Okinawa, etc, near her borders. How about agreeing to defend Taiwan against China, an island of no significance to America. How about bombing North Vietnam? How about bombing the Chinese embassy in Serbia? How about spy planes flying over Hainan island (which killed a Chinese pilot). How about American warships not far off Chinese waters? Would America tolerate any of this in reverse?

]]> By: John Lowell http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-165997 John Lowell Sat, 03 Jan 2009 06:22:33 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-165997 "What should China do John? Have more and more people and face the constant threat of famine? Be like sub-saharan Africa?" Wouldn't bother me, Andy. What would bother me is if I were to become so insensitive to the intrinsic value of human life that I'd allow myself to subordinate it to considerations of the material circumstances in which it is experienced. Not familiar with yours, my upbringing forbade my choosing murder as a way to improve the conditions of my life, although I'd known all along that Al Capone felt otherwise, naturally. "In any case China’s internal policies are its concern, not ours. I think most Iraqis would be happier to see a Chinese person then an American, wouldn’t you agree?" Well, that would be an Iraqi internal matter, and not for my exploration, eh? :-) “What should China do John? Have more and more people and face the constant threat of famine? Be like sub-saharan Africa?”

Wouldn’t bother me, Andy. What would bother me is if I were to become so insensitive to the intrinsic value of human life that I’d allow myself to subordinate it to considerations of the material circumstances in which it is experienced. Not familiar with yours, my upbringing forbade my choosing murder as a way to improve the conditions of my life, although I’d known all along that Al Capone felt otherwise, naturally.

“In any case China’s internal policies are its concern, not ours. I think most Iraqis would be happier to see a Chinese person then an American, wouldn’t you agree?”

Well, that would be an Iraqi internal matter, and not for my exploration, eh? :-)

]]> By: John Lowell http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-165995 John Lowell Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:43:18 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-165995 American imperial interference in various part of the world doesn't of itself make for the transformation of the Chinese into venerable spiritual beings, Andy. Chinese behavior - like that of this country - is to be judged in its own right and the history makes clear that it leaves more than a little to be desired. In any case, this isn't a kind of zero sum game, you know, one in which Chinese merit is somehow enhanced by American's lack of it, a framework you would seem to be advancing. And precisely how it is that you imagine the United States to be "bothering" China at the moment in any way at all let alone one that our Canadians friends wouldn't endorse completely escapes me. Presumably, we are to lay this lack of specificity at the feet of your more prosribed range of experience, eh? :-) American imperial interference in various part of the world doesn’t of itself make for the transformation of the Chinese into venerable spiritual beings, Andy. Chinese behavior – like that of this country – is to be judged in its own right and the history makes clear that it leaves more than a little to be desired. In any case, this isn’t a kind of zero sum game, you know, one in which Chinese merit is somehow enhanced by American’s lack of it, a framework you would seem to be advancing. And precisely how it is that you imagine the United States to be “bothering” China at the moment in any way at all let alone one that our Canadians friends wouldn’t endorse completely escapes me. Presumably, we are to lay this lack of specificity at the feet of your more prosribed range of experience, eh? :-)

]]> By: Tim Swanson http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-165994 Tim Swanson Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:53:06 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-165994 Chris, I currently live in central China. Wikipedia is not blocked. Chris, I currently live in central China. Wikipedia is not blocked.

]]> By: Andy http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/01/genuine-peace-and-goodwill-for-the-new-year/comment-page-1/#comment-165993 Andy Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:52:42 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5098#comment-165993 What should China do John? Have more and more people and face the constant threat of famine? Be like sub-saharan Africa? China has more then four times America's population with substantially less arable land. Isn't 1.4 billion people enough? In any case China's internal policies are its concern, not ours. I think most Iraqis would be happier to see a Chinese person then an American, wouldn't you agree? What should China do John? Have more and more people and face the constant threat of famine? Be like sub-saharan Africa? China has more then four times America’s population with substantially less arable land. Isn’t 1.4 billion people enough? In any case China’s internal policies are its concern, not ours. I think most Iraqis would be happier to see a Chinese person then an American, wouldn’t you agree?

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