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	<title>Comments on: Somalia Ruined: Intervention Fails Again</title>
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	<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/</link>
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		<title>By: MCayrow</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167247</link>
		<dc:creator>MCayrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167247</guid>
		<description>BTW, it was a good article and on behalf of Somalis, I thank you for it, Jeremy! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, it was a good article and on behalf of Somalis, I thank you for it, Jeremy! ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: MCayrow</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167246</link>
		<dc:creator>MCayrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167246</guid>
		<description>I agree wholeheartedly with you, Jeremy! What we [Somalis] did – no other Nation/State in modern history managed to do – however, years of westerns’ brain washing and indoctrinating us against our own African values – some of us [especially our stupid leaders/politicians] do not see things the way you just described it. 

Moreover, these same stupid leaders/politicians of ours take with them another chunk of our people – because of the stupid tribe loyalty, and unfortunately, the west wins again with out much effort. You see, the west won the battle and the war when they convinced us to believe that our defining character is the tribe itself.  The greatest misfortune we Africans have is our own refusal to use and trust our own brains instead of the westerns’. :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholeheartedly with you, Jeremy! What we [Somalis] did – no other Nation/State in modern history managed to do – however, years of westerns’ brain washing and indoctrinating us against our own African values – some of us [especially our stupid leaders/politicians] do not see things the way you just described it. </p>
<p>Moreover, these same stupid leaders/politicians of ours take with them another chunk of our people – because of the stupid tribe loyalty, and unfortunately, the west wins again with out much effort. You see, the west won the battle and the war when they convinced us to believe that our defining character is the tribe itself.  The greatest misfortune we Africans have is our own refusal to use and trust our own brains instead of the westerns’. :-(</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Sapienza</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167230</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Sapienza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167230</guid>
		<description>Somalia without a state was the most nakedly capitalist country on earth. What the &quot;world&quot; does not want is people being too damn free -- free of control, free of the international system. Somalis created something from nothing, no resources, no significant aid, nothing -- and the West felt emasculated and had to destroy it anew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somalia without a state was the most nakedly capitalist country on earth. What the &#8220;world&#8221; does not want is people being too damn free &#8212; free of control, free of the international system. Somalis created something from nothing, no resources, no significant aid, nothing &#8212; and the West felt emasculated and had to destroy it anew.</p>
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		<title>By: A C</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167218</link>
		<dc:creator>A C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167218</guid>
		<description>Jackson, the &#039;White Zimbabwean&#039; created and backed &#039;MDC&#039; in Zimbabwe, established by white businessmen (Eddie Cross, Roy Bennet), who state that their intention is to privatize Zimbabwe&#039;s public assets certainly supports your observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jackson, the &#8216;White Zimbabwean&#8217; created and backed &#8216;MDC&#8217; in Zimbabwe, established by white businessmen (Eddie Cross, Roy Bennet), who state that their intention is to privatize Zimbabwe&#8217;s public assets certainly supports your observation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackson Wallace</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167209</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackson Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167209</guid>
		<description>None of this is an accident. You think the world wants a strong African non-capitalist state in that location? The world is still very colonialized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of this is an accident. You think the world wants a strong African non-capitalist state in that location? The world is still very colonialized.</p>
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		<title>By: A C</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167201</link>
		<dc:creator>A C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167201</guid>
		<description>Idiocy is usually described as &quot;endlessly repeating the same process, hoping for a different result&quot;.  What does this say about our military interventionist policy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Idiocy is usually described as &#8220;endlessly repeating the same process, hoping for a different result&#8221;.  What does this say about our military interventionist policy?</p>
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		<title>By: Lear K</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167198</link>
		<dc:creator>Lear K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167198</guid>
		<description>Couldn&#039;t the US be classified as a failed state economically at least!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn&#8217;t the US be classified as a failed state economically at least!?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167197</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167197</guid>
		<description>All very true. The only purpose of the U.S. military should be to defend America, not build or rebuild Somalia, or any other country. This mentality that the U.S. is the world&#039;s cop, or social worker, is wrong. Wrong in principle and wrong in fact when actually played out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very true. The only purpose of the U.S. military should be to defend America, not build or rebuild Somalia, or any other country. This mentality that the U.S. is the world&#8217;s cop, or social worker, is wrong. Wrong in principle and wrong in fact when actually played out.</p>
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		<title>By: MCayrow</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167193</link>
		<dc:creator>MCayrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167193</guid>
		<description>Lear K. yes, you are right – Van Notten’s book is great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lear K. yes, you are right – Van Notten’s book is great.</p>
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		<title>By: Mcayrow</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167192</link>
		<dc:creator>Mcayrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167192</guid>
		<description>Wadosy, your comment about the pirates is closer to the truth than most of the boyz in this forum will ever admit. However, I believe there is even more into it than the eye meets.

And, (Andy 2009-01-27 09:37:16) yes, you are right, the wisest thing to do – is to leave us (Somalis) alone! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wadosy, your comment about the pirates is closer to the truth than most of the boyz in this forum will ever admit. However, I believe there is even more into it than the eye meets.</p>
<p>And, (Andy 2009-01-27 09:37:16) yes, you are right, the wisest thing to do – is to leave us (Somalis) alone! ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Lear K</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167190</link>
		<dc:creator>Lear K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167190</guid>
		<description>Stateless in Somalia, and Loving It


&quot;As for Somalia being lawless, Van Notten, a Dutch lawyer who married into the Samaron Clan and lived the last dozen years of his life with them, specifically challenges that portrayal. He explains that Somalia is a country based on customary law. The traditional Somali system of law and politics, he contends, is capable of maintaining a peaceful society and guiding the Somalis to prosperity. Moreover, efforts to re-establish a central government or impose democracy on the people are incompatible with the customary law.

Van Notten distinguishes between the four meanings of the word &quot;law&quot; — statutory, contractual, customary, and natural law. The common misunderstanding is that legitimate rules only come from formally established entities and that therefore a country without a legislature is lawless. Refuting that misunderstanding, van Notten explains that a perfectly orderly and peaceful country can exist when people respect property rights and honor their contracts. While natural laws denote peace, liberty, and friendly relations, statutory laws represent commands. Statutory laws reflect the preferences of legislators, who impose &quot;morality&quot; on those they govern and regulate their ability to voluntarily enter into contracts. This, according to van Notten, is wrong from the standpoint of both morality and law...

Questions arise as to rampageous warlords when discussing a country without a central government. Van Notten explains that warlords exist because of the efforts to form a central government, not because of its absence:

&quot;A democratic government has every power to exert dominion over people. To fend off the possibility of being dominated, each clan tries to capture the power of that government before it can become a threat. Those clans that didn&#039;t share in the spoils of political power would realize their chances of becoming part of the ruling alliance were nil. Therefore, they would rebel and try to secede. That would prompt the ruling clans to use every means to suppress these centrifugal forces… in the end all clans would fight with one another.&quot; (van Notten, 136; 2005)

He thus asserts that efforts by the United Nations are not only futile, but also harmful to the Somalis.&quot;

http://www.mises.org/story/2066

&quot;Significantly, the Somalis get it. They have learned through experience that less government is good, and that no government is better. Hear what telecommunications tycoon Abdirizak Ido told Mr. Cockburn: &quot;We have been through some hard times, but the worst was when we had a government. Once there was no government, there was opportunity!&quot;
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/parker1.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stateless in Somalia, and Loving It</p>
<p>&#8220;As for Somalia being lawless, Van Notten, a Dutch lawyer who married into the Samaron Clan and lived the last dozen years of his life with them, specifically challenges that portrayal. He explains that Somalia is a country based on customary law. The traditional Somali system of law and politics, he contends, is capable of maintaining a peaceful society and guiding the Somalis to prosperity. Moreover, efforts to re-establish a central government or impose democracy on the people are incompatible with the customary law.</p>
<p>Van Notten distinguishes between the four meanings of the word &#8220;law&#8221; — statutory, contractual, customary, and natural law. The common misunderstanding is that legitimate rules only come from formally established entities and that therefore a country without a legislature is lawless. Refuting that misunderstanding, van Notten explains that a perfectly orderly and peaceful country can exist when people respect property rights and honor their contracts. While natural laws denote peace, liberty, and friendly relations, statutory laws represent commands. Statutory laws reflect the preferences of legislators, who impose &#8220;morality&#8221; on those they govern and regulate their ability to voluntarily enter into contracts. This, according to van Notten, is wrong from the standpoint of both morality and law&#8230;</p>
<p>Questions arise as to rampageous warlords when discussing a country without a central government. Van Notten explains that warlords exist because of the efforts to form a central government, not because of its absence:</p>
<p>&#8220;A democratic government has every power to exert dominion over people. To fend off the possibility of being dominated, each clan tries to capture the power of that government before it can become a threat. Those clans that didn&#8217;t share in the spoils of political power would realize their chances of becoming part of the ruling alliance were nil. Therefore, they would rebel and try to secede. That would prompt the ruling clans to use every means to suppress these centrifugal forces… in the end all clans would fight with one another.&#8221; (van Notten, 136; 2005)</p>
<p>He thus asserts that efforts by the United Nations are not only futile, but also harmful to the Somalis.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mises.org/story/2066" rel="nofollow">http://www.mises.org/story/2066</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Significantly, the Somalis get it. They have learned through experience that less government is good, and that no government is better. Hear what telecommunications tycoon Abdirizak Ido told Mr. Cockburn: &#8220;We have been through some hard times, but the worst was when we had a government. Once there was no government, there was opportunity!&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/parker1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/parker1.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brad Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/27/somalia-ruined-intervention-fails-again/comment-page-1/#comment-167189</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5228#comment-167189</guid>
		<description>For all the people who believe that we should interveve in Somalia I have a few questions. First, even if we could help why should it be the US&#039;s job? Where in the constitution does it say that the Federal government has the right to steal from me to aid anyone? If your so concerned about the plight of the Somalies why don&#039;t you just go ahead and spend your time and money trying to help instead of insisting that I do it for you with my hard earned dollars? The State has no right to steal from me to aid anyone, plain and simple. Individuals have every right to spend their money as they choose. So knock yourselves out, I&#039;ll spend my time and what little extra money I have for charity here at home.

That&#039;s the core problem with most do-gooder liberal socialists, they demand my money and my neighbors money for each of their little pet projects. How am I supposed to save up enough for my children&#039;s college education, healthcare, etc. when your constantly picking my pocket?

I&#039;m not even going to get into how lousy are history has been in regards to our &quot;helping&quot; other countries.   

Peace!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For all the people who believe that we should interveve in Somalia I have a few questions. First, even if we could help why should it be the US&#8217;s job? Where in the constitution does it say that the Federal government has the right to steal from me to aid anyone? If your so concerned about the plight of the Somalies why don&#8217;t you just go ahead and spend your time and money trying to help instead of insisting that I do it for you with my hard earned dollars? The State has no right to steal from me to aid anyone, plain and simple. Individuals have every right to spend their money as they choose. So knock yourselves out, I&#8217;ll spend my time and what little extra money I have for charity here at home.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the core problem with most do-gooder liberal socialists, they demand my money and my neighbors money for each of their little pet projects. How am I supposed to save up enough for my children&#8217;s college education, healthcare, etc. when your constantly picking my pocket?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not even going to get into how lousy are history has been in regards to our &#8220;helping&#8221; other countries.   </p>
<p>Peace!</p>
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