Comments on: Don’t F*ck Me Up With Peace and Love? http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:20:24 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: TCG2 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-173855 TCG2 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:52:53 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-173855 Why do people always subject war as being either a yay or nay? Either a hawk or a dove? The US war that I am the most supportive of is WWII, the bloodiest war in the history of man-kind. Why? Because we didn't start it. We were minding our own when the Japanese attacked. Also, Germany declared war on us, not vice versa. The war in Iraq is the US war that I oppose the most. We were not attacked, Iraq was simply minding there own. Usama Bin Laden (It's spelled correctly, check the 9/11 Commision) attacked us, not Sadaam Hussein. Why do people always subject war as being either a yay or nay? Either a hawk or a dove? The US war that I am the most supportive of is WWII, the bloodiest war in the history of man-kind. Why? Because we didn't start it. We were minding our own when the Japanese attacked. Also, Germany declared war on us, not vice versa. The war in Iraq is the US war that I oppose the most. We were not attacked, Iraq was simply minding there own. Usama Bin Laden (It's spelled correctly, check the 9/11 Commision) attacked us, not Sadaam Hussein.

]]> By: Lester Ness http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-172050 Lester Ness Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:59:14 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-172050 "(including conservative Christianity, which I hear this GOP base is really into)" They practice some quasi-christian rituals, which they'd like to force on everyone else. "Oh, they’re angry that some of the loot falls on the, um… undeserving" Many want to humiliate and degrade their "inferiors," i.e., poor people, colored people, immigrants, people with different religious rituals. More than a few would like to own slaves again. "(including conservative Christianity, which I hear this GOP base is really into)"

They practice some quasi-christian rituals, which they'd like to force on everyone else.

"Oh, they’re angry that some of the loot falls on the, um… undeserving"

Many want to humiliate and degrade their "inferiors," i.e., poor people, colored people, immigrants, people with different religious rituals. More than a few would like to own slaves again.

]]> By: Lester Ness http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-172049 Lester Ness Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:55:37 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-172049 If you're pro-war, I presume you've enlisted? Or served in the past? Not to boast, but I have Vietnamese blood on my hands, hence I'm against this war, too. Most wars. If you're pro-war, I presume you've enlisted? Or served in the past? Not to boast, but I have Vietnamese blood on my hands, hence I'm against this war, too. Most wars.

]]> By: John Lennon Said “Sell It Like People Sell Soap Or Soft Drinks” « Around The Sphere http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171842 John Lennon Said “Sell It Like People Sell Soap Or Soft Drinks” « Around The Sphere Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:46:07 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171842 [...] Matt Barganier at Anti-War.com: But, of course, we do make coldly consequentialist, self-interested arguments against militarism, war, and empire. We also make arguments on moral grounds, from a number of different starting points (including conservative Christianity, which I hear this GOP base is really into). Why make this an either/or matter? Why should we drop half (or more) of our arguments when they don’t conflict with the other half? (There are various types of “humanitarianism” that do conflict with non-interventionism, but we avoid those, so no problem there.) [...] [...] Matt Barganier at Anti-War.com: But, of course, we do make coldly consequentialist, self-interested arguments against militarism, war, and empire. We also make arguments on moral grounds, from a number of different starting points (including conservative Christianity, which I hear this GOP base is really into). Why make this an either/or matter? Why should we drop half (or more) of our arguments when they don’t conflict with the other half? (There are various types of “humanitarianism” that do conflict with non-interventionism, but we avoid those, so no problem there.) [...]

]]> By: KHM http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171831 KHM Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:08:19 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171831 ...not to mention that Hayek wrote in "The Road to Serfdom" that the roots of the socialist state come from war and the nationalized economy it brings about. …not to mention that Hayek wrote in "The Road to Serfdom" that the roots of the socialist state come from war and the nationalized economy it brings about.

]]> By: rvajs http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171827 rvajs Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:25:12 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171827 Mike, I get bored repeating myself plus I've forgotten the exact words, but the essence was that I wasn't so sure that America wasn't a bunch of wimps. All I can deduce from our "macho attitude" is that 9/11 caused us to crap our pants and we haven't quit shaking to this day. The whole Bush Administration was just a bunch of back-shooting, sucker-punching cowards. And America tolerated them. And Obama is no braver. Mike,
I get bored repeating myself plus I've forgotten the exact words, but the essence was that I wasn't so sure that America wasn't a bunch of wimps. All I can deduce from our "macho attitude" is that 9/11 caused us to crap our pants and we haven't quit shaking to this day. The whole Bush Administration was just a bunch of back-shooting, sucker-punching cowards. And America tolerated them. And Obama is no braver.

]]> By: Robert Brager http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171822 Robert Brager Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:39:07 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171822 Note also how Dondero frames his argument. What does or does not constitute libertarianism derives from what the first incarnation of the Libertarian Party has or had to say about it. He cites "ignorance of Libertarian Party history"... I'm more inclined to believe that his intellectual opponents here could give a fig about the history of a political party, preferring instead to take the long look back at libertarian philosophical history, which - were he to take a look - Dondero would discover a wealth of anti-war scholarship infusing the development of the libertarian "idea", whose central axiom, I always thought, was the non-initiation of force. Note also how Dondero frames his argument. What does or does not constitute libertarianism derives from what the first incarnation of the Libertarian Party has or had to say about it. He cites "ignorance of Libertarian Party history"… I'm more inclined to believe that his intellectual opponents here could give a fig about the history of a political party, preferring instead to take the long look back at libertarian philosophical history, which – were he to take a look – Dondero would discover a wealth of anti-war scholarship infusing the development of the libertarian "idea", whose central axiom, I always thought, was the non-initiation of force.

]]> By: BradSmith http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171806 BradSmith Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:58:12 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171806 Dunderoo, Goldwater was a hawk but not a libertarian, he was mainly a Conservative who clashed with the religious right over a handfull of libertarian ideas. Milton Friedman apposed the Iraq war as a war of aggression. Quote from Ayn Rand "Wars are the second greatest evil that human societies can perpetrate. (The first is dictatorship, the enslavement of their own citizens, which is the cause of wars.)". You should also read F. A. Hayek's" Socialism and War" to see how far off you are. Dana Rohrabacher? you must be joking Unreason mag traitor to libertarian idea currently a neo-con. Now I see who you get your influence from. Jack (CIA man) Wheeler is that just a joke you threw in? Your idea of libertarians is more than a little twisted as is your list of so called pro-war libertarians. What tiny bit of credibility you had was gone after your opposition of Ron Paul. Peace! Dunderoo, Goldwater was a hawk but not a libertarian, he was mainly a Conservative who clashed with the religious right over a handfull of libertarian ideas. Milton Friedman apposed the Iraq war as a war of aggression. Quote from Ayn Rand "Wars are the second greatest evil that human societies can perpetrate. (The first is dictatorship, the enslavement of their own citizens, which is the cause of wars.)". You should also read F. A. Hayek's" Socialism and War" to see how far off you are. Dana Rohrabacher? you must be joking Unreason mag traitor to libertarian idea currently a neo-con. Now I see who you get your influence from. Jack (CIA man) Wheeler is that just a joke you threw in? Your idea of libertarians is more than a little twisted as is your list of so called pro-war libertarians. What tiny bit of credibility you had was gone after your opposition of Ron Paul.

Peace!

]]> By: BradSmith http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171804 BradSmith Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:32:28 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171804 Dunderooo, what's oxymoronic is believing that maintianing an empire and waging unnecessary wars of aggression could somehow lead to greater freedom and liberty for anyone. The obvious consequence of this horrible waste of lives and treasure is less freedom not more. We see that manifested with torture and illegal dentention, wire taps etc. It's just too easy for the state to grab yet more power everytime they create a new enemy. So sorry but your wrong, you can't be a true Libertarian and be for these rediculous wars unless you believe that giving away freedom and liberty is what Libertarians call for. Aggression against innocents is as far from a libertarian idea as you can get. For anyone interested on what a true libertarian has to say read War, Peace and the State by Murray Rothbard <a href="http://www.mises.org/rothbard/warpeace.asp" target="_blank">http://www.mises.org/rothbard/warpeace.asp</a> Peace! Dunderooo, what's oxymoronic is believing that maintianing an empire and waging unnecessary wars of aggression could somehow lead to greater freedom and liberty for anyone. The obvious consequence of this horrible waste of lives and treasure is less freedom not more. We see that manifested with torture and illegal dentention, wire taps etc. It's just too easy for the state to grab yet more power everytime they create a new enemy. So sorry but your wrong, you can't be a true Libertarian and be for these rediculous wars unless you believe that giving away freedom and liberty is what Libertarians call for. Aggression against innocents is as far from a libertarian idea as you can get. For anyone interested on what a true libertarian has to say read War, Peace and the State by Murray Rothbard http://www.mises.org/rothbard/warpeace.asp

Peace!

]]> By: EdC http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171802 EdC Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:20:24 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171802 I oppose war because it is immoral, not because I'm a libertarian or a liberal or a conservative or a progressive. In such a cause, morality trumps ideology/political-economic mindset. I oppose war because it is immoral, not because I'm a libertarian or a liberal or a conservative or a progressive. In such a cause, morality trumps ideology/political-economic mindset.

]]> By: BradSmith http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171801 BradSmith Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:35:30 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171801 You did the same thing to me and for the life of me I don't have a clue as to why. Instead of us e-mailing you why don't you post a list of your banned words? That way we will know which naughty words to stay away from. This is more that a little disapointing. You did the same thing to me and for the life of me I don't have a clue as to why. Instead of us e-mailing you why don't you post a list of your banned words? That way we will know which naughty words to stay away from. This is more that a little disapointing.

]]> By: Eric Dondero http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/07/13/dont-fck-me-up-with-peace-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-171800 Eric Dondero Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:52:07 +0000 http://www.antiwar.com/blog/?p=5897#comment-171800 Actually, it's Anti-War Libertarian that's the oxymoron. The modern libertarian movement started off with the likes of Barry Goldwater, Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, Hayek, Dana Rohrabacher, Jack Wheeler, and other Hawks and Commie haters. It was only in 1973/74 that the Libertarian Party was taken over by the Rothbardian/Raimondo leftist infiltrators. In fact, the very first LP platform said little about foreign policy, according to John Hospers, another Libertarian Hawk and a big Bush supporter. You all Newbies to our libertarian movement apparently don't know Jack about Libertarian Party history. Read up on LP history before you post about shit you know little about. Actually, it's Anti-War Libertarian that's the oxymoron. The modern libertarian movement started off with the likes of Barry Goldwater, Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, Hayek, Dana Rohrabacher, Jack Wheeler, and other Hawks and Commie haters. It was only in 1973/74 that the Libertarian Party was taken over by the Rothbardian/Raimondo leftist infiltrators. In fact, the very first LP platform said little about foreign policy, according to John Hospers, another Libertarian Hawk and a big Bush supporter.

You all Newbies to our libertarian movement apparently don't know Jack about Libertarian Party history. Read up on LP history before you post about shit you know little about.

]]>