Hawk-Dove Time Machine

A quick follow-up to my last post. I always see a certain response to criticisms of Iraq superhawks who have moderated or dropped their enthusiasm for the war: Why are you focusing on what she said in 2003 instead of what she said last month?

My answer: What a person does before an event occurs (or is averted) matters far more than what she does years later, and that will remain true until time travel is invented. The time to be right about the Iraq invasion was March 2003, not March 2008 or March 2011 or March 2525. And it wasn’t even that hard to be right! Sure, it was hard to stomach all the abuse and ostracism, but that’s not what I mean. The argument for that war was logically, epistemically, and morally feeble, a grim fart joke that only fools, ignoramuses, and liars laughed at. I don’t say that lightly. There are some tough calls in the world; maybe Afghanistan was one, but Iraq sure as hell wasn’t. The more vigorous and vicious a person’s efforts were to bring that war about, the more you should question her judgment to this very day.

  • skulz fontaine

    Right on Matt. Get 'em! March 2003 was damn ugly for those opposed to Bush's genocide on Iraq. The war was illegal. War criminal and stupid on so many levels.
    To this day, there are a large number of asshats that deserve a smack upside their heads for cheerleading the Iraq debacle. They do NOT get a free pass now. War crimes tribunals oh yeah, bring 'em on…

  • MoT

    They were more than willing to goose-step to the marsch of war back then. Now?

  • Null Void

    MoT,
    Give a person who was a hawk in the past the right situation, and it will happen all over again. Do some genuinely change their minds? Sure. But, only being consistently for peace afterwords for a sufficient period of time, while acknowledging their own past, matters. Even then, if they were directly involved in some manner they should face trial. A fair one, with a lawyer and everything; unlike the likes of John Yoo, I believe even he should have a lawyer.

    Besides, to focus only on what people say month to month or day to day creates a short term memory problem. That is one of the reasons human society is disfunctional; excessively short term memory.

    Fuck living for today. Let's have longer time horizons, shall we?

    -Null Void

  • Tom Mauel

    The Afghanistan War is a senseless attack on poor people because someone has to pay the price for the blow back of 911. The US refuses to admit that it was interference in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation and the financing and creation of the militant Bin Laden that eventually led to the 911 attacks.

    • Brad_Smith2

      Most people have no idea that we actually funded the Mujahadeen 6 month before the Soviet invasion. It was Carter who did this. Terrorist attacks started immediately after and the Soviets response was to come to the defense of their puppets. The CIA eventually suplied them with shoulder fired stingers and anti-tank weapons to drive the Soviets out, but not until Afghanistan was a ruin and the Soviet Union was broke.

      We could be next. We are not too big to fail.

  • RyanSmurfy

    The after-the-fact peaceniks are just jumping on the bandwagon — just like they did when they supported the US's unprovoked invasion and occupation of Iraq.

  • Red

    The war on Afghanistan was wrong too. No UN security council resolution authorizing the use of force. A war crime just like Iraq.

  • Brad_Smith2

    I said from day one that an occupation of Afghanistan would never go well. The Pashtun have ruled their lands for thousands of years and they are not going anywere soon. The Taliban is simply their military. There are over 40 million of them split between Afghanistan and Pakistan and the border means nothing to them. It's simply a line drawn by some Brit.

  • strap buckner

    If a poor high school educated worker like me could see could see back then that the war against Iraq was not only immoral and unnecessary, but fated to end shamefully, with no benefit to the U.S…… then why in the world couldn't our brilliant 'leaders' see that?
    Answer – they didn't give a damn about humanity. Iraq was payback for Scud missiles fired at Israel, and part of the zionist dream of 'greater Israel'.