{"id":56388,"date":"2025-11-29T09:55:56","date_gmt":"2025-11-29T17:55:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/?p=56388"},"modified":"2025-11-29T09:55:56","modified_gmt":"2025-11-29T17:55:56","slug":"ray-mcgovern-on-the-neocon-realist-war-over-ukraine","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/2025\/11\/29\/ray-mcgovern-on-the-neocon-realist-war-over-ukraine\/","title":{"rendered":"Ray McGovern on the Neocon-Realist War Over Ukraine"},"content":{"rendered":"

Reprinted from Consortium News<\/a>:<\/em><\/p>\n

Donald Trump made some revealing remarks<\/u><\/a> to the media as he flew to Florida for Thanksgiving on Wednesday. Asked if he thought Ukraine is being asked to give too much land to Russia in his proposal to end the war, Trump responded:<\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s clearly up to the Russians. It\u2019s moving in one direction\u2026 That\u2019s land that over the next couple of months might be gotten by Russia anyway. So, do you want to fight and loose another 50,000 or 60,000 people? Or do something now? They are negotiating; they are trying to get it done.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

That\u2019s the same realistic approach<\/u><\/a> Trump\u2019s new special envoy to Ukraine, U.S. Army Secretary Daniel Driscoll, took with the Ukrainians and Europe\u2019s so-called \u201ccoalition of the willing\u201d during a visit to Kiev earlier this week.<\/p>\n

Driscoll reportedly threw in yet one more reason for Ukraine to end the war \u2013 the fact that the Russians have ever-growing stockpiles of missiles they can deploy.<\/p>\n

In other words, the undeniable Russian advances all along the contact line in Ukraine are no longer deniable to anyone tuned into reality.<\/p>\n

But not everyone is tuned in. U.S. Gen. Keith Kellogg, who unrealistically claimed that Ukraine could still win, has been removed as special envoy to Ukraine, but there are other neocons lurking near the White House, for instance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio who also as national security adviser can control the flow of intelligence and policy proposals to the president.<\/p>\n

Rubio was in Geneva last Sunday with the Ukrainians and Europeans to undermine Trump\u2019s 28-point plan<\/a>, trying to replace it with one of just 19 points that unrealistically gives an advantage to Ukraine. Unrealistic because this war has already ended on the battlefield and Trump has virtually acknowledged it.<\/p>\n

What\u2019s next is an official agreement, endorsed, ideally by the United Nations Security Council, where France or Britain, however, could veto it, as the Europeans continue their efforts to thwart such a peace agreement.<\/p>\n

Britain, France and Germany, for example, are still pushing the fantasy that Russia is poised to attack Europe.<\/p>\n

So we are at the threshold on Ukraine, at the beginning of a consequential battle between the neo-cons and Europeans on one side, and Donald Trump and the realists on the other. Will Trump show the fortitude to see this through and overcome his secretary of state?<\/p>\n

For now you can dismiss the idea that the so-called \u201cPeace Plan\u201d is \u201cdead on delivery.\u201d It hasn\u2019t even officially been delivered to Russia yet.<\/p>\n

\n
\"\"<\/a>

Russian President Vladimir Putin with U.S. presidential envoy Steve Witkoff meeting at the Kremlin on Aug. 6, 2025. Putin\u2019s aide Yuri Ushakov, in background. (Kremlin.ru\/ Wikimedia Commons\/CC BY 4.0)<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Russian President Vladimir Putin awaits hand delivery from U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff probably on Monday \u2013 Washington\u2019s recent unorthodox conduct of diplomacy notwithstanding.<\/p>\n

My sense is that Witkoff, like Driscoll, will dis the Europeans and go to Moscow with the 28-point draft plan for discussion and that it will adhere to one of the main provisions of Anchorage \u2014 namely that Trump will not let Zelinski sabotage movement toward an agreement. Putin told<\/a> Hungarian President Viktor Orban today in Moscow that he remained open to meeting Trump in Budapest at a future date.<\/p>\n

With the hawkish Kellogg now in the doghouse, it is clear that both sides<\/i> are fully aware that Putin holds the high cards, the U.S. low ones, and Zelinsky none. Trump has indicated that if Zelinsky remains obdurate, his alternative is to \u201c<\/u>continue to fight his little heart out.\u201d<\/u><\/a><\/p>\n

For his part, Putin seems ready to do business. An important backdrop is his priority objective of preventing relations with the U.S. from falling into a state of complete disrepair. As for Ukraine, Putin has reiterated that the 28-point Trump plan could form the basis for future agreements.<\/p>\n

Taking questions from the press yesterday in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, Putin gave clarity<\/a> to a number of key issues.\u00a0He said there was \u201cno \u2018draft agreement\u2019 per se,\u201d but rather \u201ca set of issues proposed for discussion and finalization.\u201d<\/p>\n

Putin went on:<\/p>\n

\u201cWe discussed this with American negotiators, and subsequently, a list of 28 potential points for an agreement was formulated.<\/em><\/p>\n

Thereafter, negotiations were held in Geneva between the American and Ukrainian delegations. They decided among themselves that all these 28 points should be divided into four separate components. All of this was passed on to us.<\/em><\/p>\n

In general, we agree that this could form the basis for future agreements. However, it would be inappropriate for me to speak now of any final versions, as these do not exist.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

Putin noted that the U.S.\u00a0 \u2014 this would be Trump, not Rubio \u2014 is \u201ctaking our position into account \u2013 the position that was discussed before Anchorage and after Alaska. We are certainly prepared for this serious <\/i>discussion.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n
\"\"<\/a>

Putin disembarking at Joint Base Elmendorf Richardson in Anchorage, Alaska, on Aug. 15 for a meeting with Trump. (White House \/Daniel Torok)<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

On the question of land, Putin\u00a0 made certain that Russia will not be denied. He said, \u201cI think it will be clear at once what it is all about. When the Ukrainian troops leave the territories they occupy, then the hostilities will cease. If they do not leave, we will achieve it militarily. That\u2019s that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Of course, in 2022 Russia entered the Ukrainian civil war that had begun after the 2014 U.S.-backed coup that lead to the U.S.-installed government attacking the ethnic Russian Donbass region, which had rejected the unconstitutional change of government and declared independence.<\/p>\n

After eight years of indirectly aiding Donbass, Russia intervened directly after the Minsk agreements to end the civil war were sabotaged by Ukraine and the Europeans.\u00a0 Russia\u2019s war demands have remained demilitarizing and denazifying a neutral Ukraine. In the course of its intervention it has absorbed four Ukrainian oblasts into the Russian Federation, which remains non-negotiable to Moscow.<\/p>\n

\u201cThose in the West who understand what [recent Ukrainian defeats on the battlefield] could lead to are pushing for an end to the fighting as soon as possible,\u201d Putin said, referring to the realists in Washington.<\/p>\n

\u201cThey understand that if the front lines are drawn back in certain areas, the Ukrainian armed forces will lose their combat effectiveness and their most combat-ready units,\u201d he said. \u201c\u2018Enough is enough, preserve the core of your armed forces and your statehood, that\u2019s what you need to focus on,\u2019 say those who hold this view.\u201d<\/p>\n

But he said \u201cothers,\u201d referring to the Europeans and neocons, \u201cinsist on continuing the hostilities until the last Ukrainian. That\u2019s the difference in approaches.\u201d<\/p>\n

Putin tried to put to rest the fear-mongering in Europe about a planned Russian attack on the continent. \u201cRussia does not intend to attack Europe. To us, that sounds ridiculous, does it not?\u201d he said. \u201cWe never had any such intentions. But if they want to have it formalised, let\u2019s do it, no problem.\u201d<\/p>\n

Putin also reiterated that Russia could only sign a peace agreement with a legitimate government in Ukraine after a new election, another obstacle to overcome.<\/p>\n

\u201cI believe that the Ukrainian leadership made a fundamental, strategic mistake when it was afraid to hold presidential elections, and as a result, the president lost his legitimate status,\u201d Putin said. \u201cAs soon as any kind of peace agreement is reached, the fighting will stop, and the state of emergency will be lifted, elections will be announced.\u201d<\/p>\n

Which is another incentive for Zelensky and those who back him inside and outside of Ukraine to keep on fighting.
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\"\"<\/a>

Volodymyr Zelensky speaks with Steve Witkoff and Marco Rubio, Aug. 18, 2025 in the Oval Office. (White House \/Daniel Torok)<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\u201cSo, basically, we want to reach an agreement with Ukraine in the end, but it\u2019s almost impossible right now, legally impossible. We need our decisions to be internationally recognized by the major international players. That\u2019s it,\u201d said Putin.<\/p>\n

He added:<\/p>\n

\u201cAnd so, of course, we need recognition, but not from Ukraine today. I hope that in the future we will be able to come to an agreement with Ukraine: there are many healthy people there who want to build relations with Russia for a long-term historical perspective.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

Peace then will require the complete negation of the neocons and the Europeans and a new government in Kiev \u2014 a tall order indeed.<\/p>\n

It comes down to whether Trump can finally stand up to them \u2014 people whom he appointed, like Rubio, and whom he golfs with, like Sen. Lindsey Graham. He seems to have less respect for the Europeans, who practically sat at his feet around the Oval Office desk earlier this year pleading their case on Ukraine.<\/p>\n

Trump may be motivated in part by the vain desire to end the war to win the Nobel Peace Prize. But he can get it done. Trump can ignore the Europeans and be serious this time about cutting off military aid and intelligence to Ukraine as he threatened to do if Zelensky did not accept his 28 points by Thanksgiving.<\/p>\n

When it comes to Ukraine, Trump really does hold the cards. Will he play them?<\/p>\n

\u2014\u00a0 Joe Lauria contributed substantially to this article.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, a publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington. His 27 years as a C.I.A. analyst included leading the Soviet Foreign Policy Branch and conducting the morning briefings of the President\u2019s Daily Brief. In retirement he co-founded Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).<\/p>\n

Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News<\/em> and a former U.N. correspondent for T<\/em>he Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe<\/i>, and other newspapers, including The Montreal Gazette, <\/em>the London Daily Mail<\/em> and The Star<\/em> of Johannesburg. He was an investigative reporter for the Sunday Times <\/i>of London, a financial reporter for Bloomberg News<\/em> and began his professional work as a 19-year old stringer for The New York Times. <\/em>He is the author of two books, A Political Odyssey<\/em>, with Sen. Mike Gravel, foreword by Daniel Ellsberg; and How I Lost By Hillary Clinton<\/em>, foreword by Julian Assange.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Reprinted from Consortium News: Donald Trump made some revealing remarks to the media as he flew to Florida for Thanksgiving on Wednesday. Asked if he thought Ukraine is being asked to give too much land to Russia in his proposal to end the war, Trump responded: \u201cIt\u2019s clearly up to the Russians. It\u2019s moving in […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":64,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"none","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"coauthors":[1216],"class_list":["post-56388","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-news"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"meta_box":{"disable_donate_message":"0","custom_donate_message":"","subtitle":"Trump holds the cards to end this war but he has to find the fortitude to stand up to the Europeans and the neocons he appointed."},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56388","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/64"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=56388"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56388\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":56392,"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56388\/revisions\/56392"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=56388"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=56388"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=56388"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.antiwar.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=56388"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}