Bizarro McCain

Justin Raimondo, February 04, 2008

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Appropos my recent column on John McCain’s foreign policy views, and especially this piece in the current issue of The American Conservative, check out this Bizarro McCain:

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Comments to “Bizarro McCain”

John Lowell
February 4th, 2008 at 10:41 am

From anti-interventionist to interventionist in such a short time? Either the result of heartfelt convictions? Three guesses and the first two don’t count.

If BS were green, John McCain would be an 18 hole golf course. The posturing just never stops. For anyone today to continue envisioning McCain as an opponent of torture after his play-acting throughout the Fall of 2006 and his ultimate support of the MCA just prior to the election requires credulity of the most vacuuous sort. Not just a phoney but a mad man, we’d really have our hands full with a McCain presidency.

Tim R.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:59 am

So maybe McCain is a bit wierd, maybe he does pander for votes and change positions. But how about the wonderful Democrats? They have made pandering into an art form! I remember one of the very early democratic debates, when there were about eight candidates on the stage and a simple question was asked: Raise your hand if you think English should be declared the official language of the United States. Only former Senator Mike Gravel of Alaska raised his hand. (and good for him!) The rest of them, trying to pander for hispanic votes would not even say yes to such a basic and fundamental question.

Obamba, the big phony that he is, said something like “Of couse people should learn English but those questions are too devisive.” Devisive? What is devisive is millions of people living in a country and not speaking the language! But then again I’m not surprised at them. Hillary and Barack won’t even use the term ” illegal immigrant.” They are “undocumented.” I guess during their rush to cross the border they forget their documents at home? Then again, these same cadidates will not even dare to utter the word “Islam” and “terrorism” in the same sentence. So before picking on McCain, we should remember what Ben Franklin once said, “If your house is made of glass it is best not to throw stones.”

phil
February 4th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Answer: Vote for Ron Paul

Robert Benedetto
February 4th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

I’d vote for Ron if he wasn’t a racist. Alas I will vote for Obama. Who’s going to solve our problems at home and abroad, none of them! They’re politicians and as they said on the Wire last season, “Eventually you will be eating out of the same bowl of ‘excrement’”

Chris
February 4th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

you’re a racist.

George
February 4th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

I have the ominous feeling that this man is your next president…

Fortunately for the rest of the world any new selective war will ruin your economy, so that should rein him… or maybe not.

Adam
February 4th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

Tim R,
I am an Iraqi American Muslim and proud of it, now i wonder if you would or should call Timothy Mcveigh a Christian Terrorist??
Let’s get the facts straight first before we judge others.

McCain keeps saying the surge is working but he is not mentioning any of the daily casualties on both side. the surge is not working because of what he or GW did, it is because Iraqi triable leaders are taking charge.

So he should quit taking credit for something he has no control of. talk is cheap

When Clinton Lied no body died.

Don Yarish
February 4th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Ron Paul is NOT a racist but the status quo would like you to think so, they are afraid of his truth telling campaign and will ridicule and smear him as best they can anything to get you to not listen to him.

It is sad commentary on Ammerica that a man of Ron Pauls stature is censored by the media and by the brainwashed minds of the electorate.

Both parties are hopelessly corrupt, Obama has the same ruling class backers as Hillary what will change? NOTHING.
We need new politcal parties that represent we the people of the United States, we need a Ron Paul Revoltuion to restore the Republic and the Constitution and end the Empire– hey it sounds like Star Wars, but all kidding aside America is in deep trouble and it may take an economic colapse for the citizens to finally get it unfortunately.

Adam
February 4th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Do you what Politics stands for?
POLI = Bunch and Tics = Blood suckers…..

get the picture lol

Steve
February 4th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Nobody died? How about the half million Iraqis that perished during the barbaric sanctions he enforced for eight long years? Do they count?

Did you forget the unknown number of casualties in the Balkans conflict? On Clinton’s order, American pilots dropped cluster bombs among other munitions in residential areas. Granted, this halted the Serbian ethnic cleansing, only to have the Kosovars cleanse the Serbs.

Do the dead in Somalia, at Waco, or at the Sudanese aspirin factory count? All Bill Clinton’s handiwork.

If people die and the mainstream media don’t call it a war, is it okay?

paulite
February 4th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

How easy it is 6o throw the word “racist” around, as Benedetto (is he really blessed?) has done.

Ron Paul has never said or done anything to indicate he is anything near a racist, but he is wise not to try to defend a negative.

If anyone thinks voting for the nominee of either party will be a change for the better, you probably were also rooting for the Patriots to win.

Do some research and stop regurgitating the media scripts.

Micah
February 4th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

McCain is the most odious of the candidates running for their various party’s nomination, followed closely by HRC. He is absolutely clueless on the subjects of economics and monetary policy, and would certainly hasten the slide toward a police state that is already at breakneck speed.

The only good news about the likely nomination for Volcanic John is that it will likely cause a meltdown within the GOP. At least we can hope that a rational governing outlook can be regained when the thing is put back together. I’m not optimistic about that, but it is probably our best hope for a return to sanity. The choice between lots of wars and a whole lot of wars, and corporatism vs. super-corporatism cause me to grow ever more cynical.

Colin N
February 4th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

You make it sounds as though ‘yes’ was the only answer to the question. Do you think that making everyone speak English will somehow eliminate any immigration problems? Also, it really is a divisive question and you’re response of they ‘would not even say yes to such a basic and fundamental question’ is precisely why. You’ve broken down a complex question into black and white and if someone says ‘no’ to your ‘yes’ than they are immediately wrong and have no other arguments. That is not a way to debate, and not a way to move forward on a subject.

Eugene Costa
February 4th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

“English Only” in the US is not only historically and politically absurd but unconstitutional and against any number of treaties as well.

Robert Benedetto
February 4th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

Wow, Chris. Thanks for clearing that up. Do you have an opinion on the subject or did you just want to call me a racist? And if so, who am I racist against (politician isn’t an ethnicity)?

I’ll still voting for Obama, but if it ends up Hilary against McCain, I think I’d have to swallow tongue and vote for McCain. Simply because I trust him to win a war the right way as opposed to Hillary that would act purely out of fear she may be called out for being woman not willing to fight.

It’s a no win, he’ll screw the economy and lead us further to a polic state like Micah said. Meanwhile I wouldn’t trust Hillary to lead me into a street fight let alone a war.

Chris Baker
February 4th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

He got paid off, just like Charles Keating paid him off.

Robert Fallin
February 4th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

Three reasons to vote for Mitt Romney in Super Tuesday “Winner Take All” States
1. John McCain
2. John McCain
3. John McCain

Romney may be an unprincipled opportunist, but McCain’s a bloodthirsty whack job.

Eugene Costa
February 4th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

Does anyone know if Pakistan has a plans for taking custody of the US nuclear arsenal in case of US civil and economic collapse and to keep them out of the hands of Neo-Con extremists and conservative Christian fundamentalists?

Michael
February 4th, 2008 at 7:04 pm

Give me a holler if anyone else thinks McCain looks like Darth Vader with his mask off.

Eugene Costa
February 4th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

His neck and belligerence suggest heavy doses of steroids, perhaps as continuing treatment for his various injuries.

Tim R.
February 4th, 2008 at 7:15 pm

Eugene Costa writes:

“English Only” in the US is not only historically and politically absurd but unconstitutional and against any number of treaties as well.”

Care to be a bit more specific? In what way would an English only law be unconstitutional? (what language was the constitution written in again?) And what treaties would it violate? Your comments show breath taking ignorance of both American law and history.

Tim R.
February 4th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

Adam:

Yes, McVeigh was a Christian terrorist but how many other examples can you cite? Very few. Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, there is a link between Islam and violance? Are you aware of the Pew Global Attitudes Survey that shows substantial minorities of Muslims favor suicide bombings and hold Bin Laden in high regard? Are you aware that the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks are done by fanatical Muslims? If you are a Muslim who believes in peace then you should be just as disgusted with the Islamic terrorists as we are.

Ron
February 4th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

Ron Paul is about as racist as Dr. Martin Luther King, or Ghandi, or Rosa Parks, three people he says he considers his personal heros. Yet these rumors of his racism persist because some half-informed nit-wits spread half-truths and rumors. Check his thirty year public record, the hundreds of speeches, the hundreds of articles he personally wrote, and the votes he cast in Congress. Ron Paul is an anti-racist. He believes all persons should be treated as individuals, without regard to race.
Obama, on the other hand, is a member of a church that does not allow whites to join. His mentor and pastor is anti-semitic and anti-white.

salem s
February 4th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

Tim,
one word for you.IRAQ!

salem s
February 4th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

Rwanda’s genocide trials:

http://www.economist.com/world/africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_JRJGDD

Hudson
February 4th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

Take direct action Tuesday morning.

Download this PDF flyer, put some up in your neighborhood, in your workplace, at the bus stop, anywhere:

http://hudson.typepad.com/shevotedforthewar.pdf

Or just type your own, print and post:

SHE
VOTED
FOR
THE
WAR

Says it all.

dan
February 4th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

How about the illegal US smash and grab in Irag started on a pack of lies in which our “brave Christian freedom fighters” have murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis (not to mention all the Iraqis maimed/tortured/imprisoned/raped/displaced/orphaned) in an attempt to steal their oil Tim?

That’s called state terrorism in my book. Turns out AQ or any other “terrorist” group (def: any murderous group we don’t fund/support) are wannabes compared to the US killing machine.

john mackie
February 5th, 2008 at 12:50 am

McCain as President is a very frightening prospect. He has a volcanic temper, totally unsuited to being allowed anywhere within shouting distance of the nukular football, and has multiple daemons to wrestle with. Mainly he will try to prove he is NOT a coward (and a treasonous one at that) – for his disgraceful acts wile a POW. Furthermore… he feels guilty for his own fcukup at getting shot down in the first place – caused by his irrational hotheadedness as a ‘pilot’. God Help us all if he gets in.

dan
February 5th, 2008 at 1:04 am

his “disgraceful acts” started well before he became a POW. voluntarily incinerating Vietnamese who were never any threat to us in an illegal war started on a pack of lies makes him a war criminal, not a “war hero”.

he’s a murderous thug, and a disgrace.

john mackie
February 5th, 2008 at 1:15 am

Dan – That’s also true. My gosh, USA is overdue for a commuppance on a global scale. But I fear that before that ever happens she will attempt to go down fighting and start ANOTHER illegal war based on lies… with Iran.

subHuman
February 5th, 2008 at 2:55 am

The next decider in chief is going to be Armageddonite regardless who gets chosen by the creators and shapers of sheep opinion.

Kucinic is out and Dr. Paul unfortunately doesn’t stand the chance.

Get used to destruction, American gulags and genocide till the rest of humanity has had enough and realizes it is best to go for broke or become enslaved by the new Evil Empire.

John L.
February 5th, 2008 at 3:34 am

English-only is unnecessary and just a way to pander to the anti-immigrant crowd. Second-generation immigrants are learning English at a higher rate than the Ellis Island days, and believe it or not, the country didn’t collapse back then. There has been a slight uptick in people in this country who can’t speak English, true, but this is only after record lows.

Personally, I’d hesitate voting for someone who wants to close off government to a portion of its residents.

anon
February 5th, 2008 at 3:55 am

Heh heh.

That reminds me of Stephen King’s _The Dead Zone_. And of an _Onion_ article in the wake of the Bush/Gore election 2000 mess, about Serbians being dispatched to the US to oversee the US electoral process (for fairness etc).

ablejack
February 5th, 2008 at 5:10 am

I hope one of the currently running republicans gets nominated for that party, insuring their loss.

richard vajs
February 5th, 2008 at 5:42 am

Tim R,
There is an unmistakeable link between Zionism and the genocidal occupation of Palestine. And there is a justifiable link between attempted genocide and violent resistance. But you are a near-sighted man on a galloping horse – you report only a link between Arabs and violence.

optomist
February 5th, 2008 at 6:26 am

Grasping at straws. Since when has speaking english found its way to being an important priority? Save for among the reactionary set. Seriously. Get on to larger issues.

optimist
February 5th, 2008 at 6:28 am

Indeed.

optimist
February 5th, 2008 at 6:34 am

Methinks Tim R. needs a little time working in the mountains of a developing country–maybe one of the several -istans. Since when has the Pew survey accounted for the historical record as the reason for sentiments garnered in the survey. How to invigorate a change of attitude (development, incorporation, inclusion, etc.-spreading the wealth) is the conclusion to be drawn. Not bombing, looting, and defiling entire categories of people.

optimist
February 5th, 2008 at 6:37 am

And Obama had the luxury of not being there. Come on now. Ron Paul also “voted for the war.” We don’t see the single abstention, Barbara Lee D. California, on the ballot.

Albert Mezzetti
February 5th, 2008 at 7:17 am

As a woundeded Marine Corps machine gunner, who served his country in 3 wars ON THE GROUND, WARMONGER MCCAIN SCARS THE HELL OUT OF ME. As a fly boy he hasn’t the foggiest idea about the deadly realities of being on the ground fighting the enemy. WAR HERO ? CRAP !!! HE SPENT THE WAR IN A PRISON BED AND WITH HIS FATHER BEING AN ADMIRAL RECEIVED BETTER TREATMENT THAN THE USUAL IMPRISONED GRUNT.

McCain is as mentally bizarre as his comrade dumbo bush.

VOTE OBAMA AND BRING OUR KIDS HOME NOW, NOW, NOW !!

Ciant Gock
February 5th, 2008 at 7:48 am

I think your confusing being thoughtful with “pandering.” But then again, your a republican. Your criteria for a good candidate is the one who is wearing the american flag pin made in china on their lapel. The whole point is that republicans flip flop on every single issue that they have. You completely fail in your effort to claim the democratic candidates do the same. The closest you come is talking about how you disagree with the democratic positions.. but that is a completely different issue all together. You can’t even predict what side of the issue Romney will be on tomorrow about Abortion.

Jim
February 5th, 2008 at 7:59 am

Thsi notion that Obama is anti-war is 100% bull. Obama will NOT bring the troops home – ever. Not only that , he’ll be sending them, as a geat ‘humanitarian’, to African hellholes like Dafur, etc. Bank on it.

There’s ONE, and ONLY ONE antiwar candidate – Ron Paul.

Thomas
February 5th, 2008 at 8:19 am

He is the perfect candidate to replace the moron prince. Just the bomb…bomb…bomb…….bomb…bomb Iran, should tell anyone except our neocon bretheren what will be in store for our future.. Their dreams of military glory will further imbed America into the unwinnable moras of the Moslem world. The American people seem to be O.K. with the neocon gambit of 911…Just as they were O.K. with the Golf of Tonkin phoney provocation. Hey, once there is a war, grow it into a cash cow big enough to make all our friends rich and powerful!!!

Midwestman
February 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am

The difference: those operations were intended to be covert/short term ops. Yes people died, but no leader in the history of the world hasn’t ordered the deaths of others. It comes with the job. Bush on the other hand lied to his people about the intentions of occupying another country and allowing the defenders of this country become the offenders of another.

Midwestman
February 5th, 2008 at 9:15 am

I see a lot of vile poison spilling forth from the mouths of so called patriot in this thread. Most of you who recomend we just “bomb” or “nuke” the mid-east need to step back and listen to yourselves. You sound exaclty like the people in the mid-east calling us “white devil” and that we should also be bombed and nuked. Yet you call them terrorists by nature, but yet you spill forth terms like nuke and bomb. Those people ask for the “hand of god” to strike us down, yet we ask that our president use real world, real life taking, real murder tools, REAL WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRCUTION to eliminate entire peoples for no other reason to feed your own hatred. You people hate. Simply put, be you christian or not, you hate others. For their skin, religion, culture, or lifestyle, you hate. Because our government tells you you can’t hate certain people in this country, you look for the people our government tells you you can hate, which today happens to be muslim/middle-easterners. so you turn, with glorious ferver, against fellow human beings who think or act or look different than you because our government has given you its silent approval. And you feel comfortable because so many people join with you in your hatred. mob mentallity and internet annonimity allows you to spew forth the poison you so love to spread. So lap it up, eat it up, swallow it with pride, because when those you hate take action against you, you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

Ben
February 5th, 2008 at 9:26 am

How many examples of Christian Terrorists can I cite? How about nearly every person with “US AIR FORCE” written on their arm. OOOh, does that offend you? Maybe your house should be napalmed and you can see your family melt away in front of your eyes, then you’ll know what it is to be offended. The US murders a million Iraqis and complains about how nasty the Muslims are. Go back to the Third Reich, you’d be happier there.

Tim R.
February 5th, 2008 at 9:54 am

Richard Vajs, you and those like you equate Israel with Hitler. You really think there is a genocide? Back up what you are saying with evidence, facts, and statistics. Also go look up the work “genocide” in a dictionary and then back up your assertion with facts.

Also, you never answered these points I made on another thread. Maybe its because you don’t have an answer?

I mentioned the rocket attacks from Gaza. No matter how much the Palestinaians in Gaza may have suffered, do you for one minute think that excuses them from knowing right and wrong? Is there any excuse for deliberatly targeting rocket attacks at civilians? Do you not agree that those attacks are reprehensible?

As to Gaza being under Israel’s control. Well, what choice is there? Should Israel just open up her borders and allow 1.5 million Palestinians in? Does Israel not have a right to protect her borders? For years they said, if only Israel pulled out, if only we had “land for piece” things would work out. Well, Israel DID indeed pull out. And has there been peace? Has HAMAS and/or Islamic Jihad and or the Popular Front even recognized Israel’s right to exist? Israel gave up land but she did not get any peace in return.

And another thought: Why is racism only a one way street around here? There were only about 7,000 Jews living amongst over 1.5 million Muslims in Gaza. Why did there have to be this “ethnic cleansing” of Jews anyway? And what would your reaction be if, for example, 7,000 Muslims lived in a big city, say Tel Aviv for example, surrounded by over a million Jews. And the Jews said, no you can’t stay here. 7,000 Muslims among a million Jews is too much? I bet you’d be outraged about that. So why is it not so the other way around?

The West Bank has a poplulation that is over 95% Arab Muslim. But yet a 5% Jewish population is too much? And that is not racism? Imagine: An all white county in say, South Carolina, for example. They are 95% white but black have moved in and now make up 5% and the county says, hell no! We have to put a stop to all these black people living here. I’m sure you and the NAACP would be pretty upset about that. And rightfully so. But not the other way around. For Jews in Israel is it ok to discriminate and demand ethnic cleansing. Why?

Another point: Are you aware that prior to Israel’s becoming a state in 1948, a lot of the land now disputed was actually purchased by wealthy Jews? The Arabs willingly sold much of it. Sir Moses Maimonodes, a very wealthy British citizen personally donated a lot of his money for this cause.

As to Lebannon: Why do you keep making excuses for Hezzbolah? Go and check the record for yourself. Yes, they still claim the tiny Sheba Farms area. But according to the UNITED NATIONS, Israel has been deemed to have FULLY complied with all resolutions regarding Lebannon. Their international borders have been certified. But yet, has Hezbollah stopped their rocket attacks, border raids, and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers? Have they recognized Israel’s right to exist? Or do they still refer to her very existance as the Naqba, the catastrophe? Again, Israel gave up land. Where is the peace? And even though you are angry at Israel, I understand that, but why make excuses for Hezbollah?

Lastly, comparing Israel to Nazi germany was really beyond the pale. You lost me at that point. Yes, Israel has made some awful mistakes and has in many cases not treated the Palestinians in a fair or humane way. However, Hitler deliberatly sought to wipe out an entire race. He deliberatly murdered 6,000,000 Jews as well as millions of Poles, gays, the mentally ill, and other “undersireables.” How many millions of Palestinians has Israel sent to gas chambers? How many millions of them have they deliberatly killed?

Chris
February 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am

Do you have an opinion on the subject or did you just want to call me a racist?nope, motive was to act just like you. If you can make false charges and call people names so can I, you bigoted racist you.

hjmaiere
February 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am

Midwestman writes: “…no leader in the history of the world hasn’t ordered the deaths of others. It comes with the job.”

Nonsense. There are people who profit from war and war making. There are people who profit from the accumulation and centralization and institutionalization of government authority. There are people who profit from the ‘projection’ of U.S. military strength throughout the world. These people consciously and deliberately influence not only the media, but education at all levels.

Thus, a president like Martin van Buren, who kept the U.S. out of not one, but two wars, who refused to cave in to the pressure by the banking elite to create a national bank, is relegated to the dustbin of history, while a president like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who is partially responsible for the single worst economic depression in U.S. history, who allowed the banks to confiscate everyone’s gold, who deliberately goaded Japan into attacking the U.S. so he could drag a reluctant country into WWII (the consequence of which was to hand half of Europe over to a tyrant far worse than Hitler), who himself put innocent people into prison camps, a president like FDR is celebrated as a great leader.

Clinton and Bush have both done horrible evil in the world. Bush just happens to be a lot stupider.

Chris
February 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am

And yes. from reading the rants on your blog, you seem to be quite the loudmouthed hateful bigot. At least Ron Paul didn’t put a URL link to openly bigoted speech in his newsletters like you do, lol.

http://www.dailysociopath.com/2008/02/04/boycott-india/

You should do more crying about how much you hate “curry eating” Indians on your blog that nobody reads, and tell all the people that aren’t reading it how much you hate Indians because “they’re a stealin’ our jobs!” or w/e.

No bigotry on your ranting blag or anything:

They [Indians] stink. Their entire country stinks. They smell like a diaper full of curry. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them.

Wow, diaper full of curry, eh? No, you’re not a bigot, not at all! LAWL at you, bigot.

I will take Indian, classes learn the lingo, and tell you to shove a bag of red dots up your ass if you call me ever again.

Go crawl back under your rock, Bigot.

Chris
February 5th, 2008 at 10:49 am

No need to justify Dr. Paul to our not bigoted friend, Robert “Indians stink like a Diaper full of curry” Benedetto. Hey Bob, the Grand Wizard called, said to let you know that the meeting at the lodge has been rescheduled.

John Mayer
February 5th, 2008 at 11:30 am

Well, I’m no Republican and no Conservative, and I had an uncle who was born and raised in the US but never learned English, but I see nothing wrong with naming English the national language; it’s only logical to choose one, and English is, obviously, the predominant one. I thought the point of the story of the Tower of Babel had been made long ago.

As a second generation American, I also am not “anti-immigrant,” the term pro-amnesty media folks like to use; just anti-ILLEGAL immigrant. Rush Limbaugh and his ilk have managed to convince the world, including, I fear, many of my fellow liberals, that we are in favor of throwing open our borders to the world’s teeming billions. In fact, as a liberal, I regard the importation of millions of low-wage workers the biggest scab operation in the history of American labor. And it’s not the workers I blame; it’s the employers and the wink and nudge government I condemn.

There are no jobs Americans won’t do for a living wage; I’ve done most of those jobs “Americans won’t do,” including farm work, factory work, kitchen work, construction work, and hotel work. Every job filled by someone who strolled across our border is a job not available to would-be legal immigrants. My college roommate was from Haiti; about a year ago over 80 desperate Haitians drowned while trying to come to the US in hope of jobs. And how about all those displaced Iraqis? We had a hand in their refugee status, but, last I heard, only 7000 Iraqi immigrants had been accepted since we invaded their country. There’s only room for so many.

And before somebody calls me a racist – and I know someone will – my response is: I’m rubber, you’re glue; insults bounce off me and stick to you.

John Mayer
February 5th, 2008 at 11:43 am

And, oh, yeah, about the video:

Very telling. Republicans only like fighting wars that secure oil rights. Clinton was loudly condemned by the Repugnatans for intervening in Haiti and Kosovo, where the situations were truly desperate, because, basically, those crises of human misery weren’t America’s problem, and couldn’t turn a profit. Republicans demanded we get out of Somalia, which we did (btw, it was Colin Powell who assured Clinton that armored vehicles weren’t needed), and warned against involvement in Rwanda. And true to Republican form, Huckabee says Darfur and the Congo aren’t our problem; we need to focus, instead, on changing the constitution to conform to the Bible. That would be the Old Testament he has in mind, I guess, where David orders his men to dash the enemies’ babies’ brains out. None of that New Testament good Samaritan stuff.

I’m not happy with the gutlessness the Dems have shown in congress, but I haven’t seen the Republican yet I could stand to vote for. Maybe I’ll vote Green this year.

John Lowell
February 5th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

I read that General Hayden, head of the CIA, has acknowledged publically the waterboarding of three human beings by his operatives. The fact that these acts were made public and that thanks in no small part to the collusion of legislators in both political parties by offering legal cover for them carries the shame of the United States over its actions since 9/11 to entirely new levels. Not content with mere acts of military aggression, this country and its leadership now wishes to bring to completion its emulation of National Socialist Germany. But not even Heinrich Himmler would stoop to the arrogance of a public admission of wrongdoing. Only Field Marshall Hayden has the brass for that.

Richard
February 5th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Just to comment on what McCain said: seems he didn’t think American blood was worth being shed to bring democracy to black people in Haiti or Somalia. They and their countries just weren’t worth it. That’s how I would interpret his change of heart over intervention if I were a democrat.

Auto Drone
February 5th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

John, I share your outrage over these new revelations re: waterboarding. However, I feel this candid admission (assuming the CIA is telling the truth – always a dodgy assumption) of a definite number: three, will actually go some ways into lifting the veil of secrecy under which these “interrogations” have been performed.

If the American public (and the world) has to be informed of each instance of “waterboarding”, such procedures necessarily become more politically costly and unpalatable to undertake. Vague, unsubstantiated reports in 193 page dossiers do little do evoke public outrage or accountability the way direct acknowledgements of culpability (e.g. Abu Ghraib) do. Ultimately, it is the public’s repugnance against the violence these acts commit on our collective conscience that will bring about real change.

At the very least, the General’s admission of a finite number is far more comforting than the usual Bushite double-speak (“We don’t torture, but then we get to exclusively define what ‘torture’ means”).

Dano
February 5th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

Ron Paul voted to go after al-Qaeda, not to invade Iraq. More distortions of the truth. The US should have gone after bin Laden, killed him, and then brought ALL the troops home and change it’s foreign policy. This is what Ron Paul has always stood for. I don’t quite know where you get your information.

John Lowell
February 5th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

Auto Drone,

If the MCA has a parallel in the history of the 20th century I suppose it was in the Politboro’s authorizing Stalin to torture “peoples’ enemies” in 1938. But even in that instance the practice was kept concealed. The show trial which often followed the torture was considered the piece de resistance as it is alleged to have served a pedagogical purpose. The execution, always in private, was considered a detail. Yet here, with Hayden, its the torture that’s showcased, and if its pedagogy that’s the point we have something approaching the Taliban with their practice of hanging mutilated victims on lampposts and the like to consider. Great folks our leaders and theirs.

I think the American people have become so debased morally that the possibility of Hayden’s engendering outrage over the institutionalization of torture is as remote today as their’s would be over some self-centered, careerist female committing the substance of her lastest sexual dalliance to some murder clinic. Any nation as unfamiliar as ours with what it means to be a
human being runs the risk of such profound debasement. I believe the problem starts there, frankly.

Tim R.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Why do you assume I’m a Republican? As a matter of fact, I am a registered Democrat. The sad thing is the Democratic party of FDR, Truman, and JFK, is not what it used to be.

Tim R.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:43 pm

Speaking English is not an important priority? A common language to unite a country was important enough for one of our founding fathers, John Jay, to mention in the Federalist Papers. I would call that pretty important.

Tim R.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Question for those of you that say the United States “murders” innocent Iraqi people:

How do you define murder? As the intentional killing of another human being? If so, please cite specific and well documented evidence the the US Air Force deliberatly targets civilians. Please cite hard evidence that the US Air Force INTENTIONALLY targets innoect civilians in Iraq. And for those who call them “Christian terrorists” please cite specific cases of our servicemen saying that they are killing people in Jesus’ name or for the sake of Christianity. When was the last time you saw Christians dancing in the street to celebrate the death of innocent people? I’m sure the peaceful Muslims would not do that would they…

Maybe you have a secret phone conversation where the President calls up the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and say, ” By gosh, we have not killed enough innocent children this month.” We need to step up our bombing runs and carefully seek out civilian targets to bomb.” If the Air Force is targeting a military base and, accidently, innocent people get killed that is unintentional. It still might be reckless and even immoral in itself. But don’t call it murder.

But when the Islamo Fascist go out on suicide bombing runs, their specific objective is to kill innoenct people.

Kenneth
February 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

Possibly because party and ideology are broadly coterminous and because you employ the same tactic with members of a much more diverse movement.

jbyopa
February 5th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

Immigrants to this country should learn English. That is not pandering; It’s an economic reality. The world does business in English. When 3 of my grandparents came to this country speaking other languages, they made it their business to learn our language, so they could communicate with the broader community and get decent jobs making decent wages.
English was spoken at home, and my parents and their brothers and sisters became Americans because they could assimilate into the general population.
Life is tough, and making a living can be a bitch. Add to that an inability to communicate with the majority of Americans and tough becomes a lot tougher.

Kenneth
February 5th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

US targets medical infrastructure:

http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/reports/HealthcareUnderOccupationDahrJamail.htm

Elsewhere, the US government admitted to using white phosphorus in Fallujah:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2005/11/16/phosphorus-fallujah051116.html

Why is this important? Because white phosphorus is the most effective smokescreening agent in existence. It is a very imprecise and indiscriminate weapon, incinerating everything within its operational radius, and its use indicates an intention to destroy, or complete disregard for, civilian life. In a world of computer guided precision weapons its employment is revealing. Most atrocities, however, are executed by America’s (pro-Iranian) regional proxies, an armed wing of Iraq’s Interior Ministry known as the Special Police Commandoes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4719252.stm

Investigation reveals an extensive air war waged against urban areas:

http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/071213_oif-
oef_airpower.pdf

Further:

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/48180/michael_schwartz_on_iraq_as_a_killing_ground

One passage, in particular, deserves special attention:

As one American officer explained to New York Times reporter Dexter Filkins, the willingness to sacrifice local civilians is part of a larger strategy in which U.S. military power is used to “punish not only the guerrillas, but also make clear to ordinary Iraqis the cost of not cooperating.” A Marine calling-in to a radio talk show recently stated the argument more precisely: “You know why those people get killed? It’s because they’re letting insurgents hide in their house.”

This is, by the way, the textbook definition of terrorism — attacking a civilian population to get it to withdraw support from the enemy.. What this strategic orientation, applied wherever American troops fight the Iraqi resistance, represents is an embrace of terrorism as a principle tactic for subduing Iraq’s insurgency.

It still might be reckless and even immoral in itself. But don’t call it murder.

The evidence accumulated thus far fails to support this assertion.

But when the Islamo Fascist go out on suicide bombing runs, their specific objective is to kill innoenct people.

Wrong again, Timmy. Insurgent strikes are overwhelmingly aimed at coalition and Iraqi government forces:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21385686-5005961,00.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pdfs/9010Quarterly-Report-20061216.pdf

http://bp1.blogger.com/_JNlxgs6qm2M/RfkvFQhVhuI/AAAAAAAAALI/O9HzZA9UMII/s1600-h/Iraq+attacks.jpg

It is rather tiresome (and galling, I might add) to deal with your endless accusations, false juxtapositions, rhetorical questions, and all around intellectual bravado, especially when your own thesis is so empirically ramshackle. Nonetheless, for the sake of everyone else’s mental health, and public knowledge in general, it must be done. I eagerly await a reply more solid than hydrogen at several million degrees Kelvin.

jack
February 5th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

Let the world run itself.The USA has killed and maimed enough people.Bring all the troops home now,Ron Paul for president.

Tim R.
February 5th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

It is a shame when people make allegations they can’t support. Please back up your assertions with clear evidence. First of all, many of the sources you linked to are suspect. But putting that aside, where was the INTENTIONAL bombing of innocent people? The sources you linked to showed a pattern of bombing that demonstrates the US trying to stop insurgents and kill the enemy (which is their job!). However, there might be an indifference as to who else dies. Perhaps it is a reckless disregard for who else gets killed. And that in itself is wrong (I think we would agree on that) But it is not murder if by murder you mean the deliberate, purposeful, and intentional killing of innocent persons.

Again, my question was where is the statistical, clear, hard, evidence that the US Air Force intentionally, and specifically, targets civilians.

FirstCasualty
February 5th, 2008 at 10:38 pm

You will vote for a racist that supports Apartheid in israel in Obama, but not an imagined racist in Paul? Silly. Turn the idiot box off please.

FirstCasualty
February 5th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

Hear hear.

FirstCasualty
February 5th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

Both parties are in a meltdown. It’s quite hilarious.

FirstCasualty
February 5th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

Yep.

FirstCasualty
February 5th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

Start a revolution today :D

Kenneth
February 5th, 2008 at 11:14 pm

First of all, many of the sources you linked to are suspect.

I assume you’re referring to Dahr Jamail and Schwartz, both of whose missives are quite well sourced. Perhaps if you could “support this allegation” then I could deal with it effectively. But to extend the purview of supposed deficiency to “many” sources would require that we dismiss CSIS (the Canadian intelligence agency) and the US military.

But putting that aside, where was the INTENTIONAL bombing of innocent people?

The phosphorus bombs, air war, and strikes on civilian infrastructure in general, silly. Neither of these betokens an effort to obviate civilian casualties- just the opposite, given the munitions utilized. A concerted effort at minimizing civilian casualties would imply a primary role for surgical strikes and house-to-house warfare, not indiscriminate bombing. Your implied criterion is, moreover, altogether absurd: you seem to saying that proof of genocidal (and not merely murderous) intent is necessary before America’s war becomes illegitimate. It isn’t, and the fact that it has not (yet) reached Khmer Rouge levels of depravity doesn’t alter the murderous and immoral nature of America’s war.

The sources you linked to showed a pattern of bombing that demonstrates the US trying to stop insurgents and kill the enemy (which is their job!)

No, they don’t. They indicate tactics that don’t distinguish between military and civilian targets. See above.

However, there might be an indifference as to who else dies. Perhaps it is a reckless disregard for who else gets killed.

Which is largely the point I’ve been trying to make. I would add, however, that the destruction of civilian infrastructure is a means of destroying epicenters of resistance. The legitimacy of such actions in this context is therefore tied to the legitimacy of the occupation as a whole, which, if Iraqi popular opinion is anything to go by, is anything but:

http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?Releases/2006/Jun06/r061406a

But it is not murder if by murder you mean the deliberate, purposeful, and intentional killing of innocent persons.

I mean the deliberate use of savage means such as the ones described above with full knowledge of their consequences when much less bloody alternatives are available.

Kenneth
February 5th, 2008 at 11:38 pm

I should also reiterate that the US has largely devolved the task of killing innocents to its auxiliaries, the death squads and mercenary organizations- hence, direct military action to liquidate large swathes of the population is unnecessary.

Rampaging Manatee
February 5th, 2008 at 11:51 pm

Here! Here!

Dr. Paul racist? No. But nice job regurgitating CFR talking points.

You’re clueless.

Not you, Phil.

You Robert! (with a soft “t” I presume)

OOPS I’m racist. LOL

r3VO_|ution08

Elizabeth
February 6th, 2008 at 2:46 am

Yes! the situation in Kosovo was truly desperate.
A christian nation, namely Serbia, under terrorist attack from a group of islamic terrorists funded, armed and trained by the USA and Britain (Germany well in there as well still fighting its defeats of the second world war.)
Bill Clinton, Madeleine Albright, Richard Holbrooke, Wesley Clarke et all should all be before the war crimes tribunal in the Hague for the relentless bombing of a defenceless people for 78 days and nights and the destruction of a nation and its people.
The lies began with the Clinton administration. There were no mass graves!!There was no ethnic cleansing other than of Serbs. 700,000 cleansed from their own historic province and homes from Kosovo to Croatia.
Not a conspiracy expert but so many questions still remain over Waco and OKC – all Billary and democrat and the piece de resistance – Yugoslavia was an affront to international law as is the threatened recognition of Kosovo as a criminal and jihadist islamic independent state in the ‘underbelly’ of Europe.
McCain, Clinton, Obama.
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad- in America’s case with greed, power and Chinese tat.
We around the planet are watching as the American people collectively show a madness that will ultimately destroy your own country – thats your perogative but sadly you will probably kill countless others with more War (100 years from McCain) stretching right around the globe.
Get real, get a grip and vote Ron Paul if not for yourselves then for the other 6 billion on the planet.
Elizabeth

subHuman
February 6th, 2008 at 3:25 am

Russian revolution started in 1825 and culminated in 1917.
Self-Destruction of former USA started by appointing Bush to WH in 2000 and Coup d’etat in late 2001.
Some revolutions take a while before bearing fruit.

phil
February 6th, 2008 at 5:54 am

Like father, like son.

Just like his daddy, Admiral McCain, helped cover up the USS Liberty incident and “made his bones” with the establishment, so now Sonny-Boy gets to be president. It is enough to make you sick to your stomach.

http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_bryant5_02-05-08_D07G64K_v35.38ce2b9.html

phil
February 6th, 2008 at 6:06 am

To: John Lowell

…..Not content with mere acts of military aggression, this country and its leadership now wishes to bring to completion its emulation of National Socialist Germany. But not even Heinrich Himmler would stoop to the arrogance of a public admission of wrongdoing…..

Your comments are both chilling and prophetic. Just the other night I was saying that this country is going to get the leadership they deserve, not the leadership they necessarily want. I keep thinking about the book of Daniel and the “handwriting on the wall” more and more lately.

Ardavast Avakian
February 6th, 2008 at 8:03 am

AMERICA”S NUMBER ONE ENEMY:

THE CAPTURED, CONTAMINATED

AND CONTROLLED NEWS MEDIA

IN ALL FORMS.

richard vajs
February 6th, 2008 at 8:26 am

Tim R,
You say Israel no longer occupies Gaza? Why then are the borders around Gaza sealed? Israel will not even tolerate an open border on the Egyptian side? Why is Israel in a position to cut off the flow of medical supplies, food, water, fuel, etc. to Gaza? Who controls the skies over Gaza? Who controls the waters off Gaza? In every case it is Israel (with help from the good ole USA). You deny genocide in Palestine? To Golda Meir, the Palestinians didn’t even exist. To Mr. Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman (right wing Israeli politicians), the Palestinians need to be “transferred” – eg gotten rid of one way or another. For Gaza, I guess, Israel is trying to gracefully starve them out first. If that don’t work, who knows? For the West Bank, the “settlers” are doing the heavty lifting. Israel now controls about 93% of what was originally Palestine. You may not call that genocide, but you certainly must admit that this is ethnic cleansing.

C. Raymond
February 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am

You ass! Here we go again! Leave Hispanics out of this! You a#* hole!

C. Raymond
February 6th, 2008 at 9:00 am

This gnome, Tim R., is not a Democrat: he is a Nazi

C. Raymond
February 6th, 2008 at 9:10 am

Tim R.

Go sell B.S. somewhere else.

John Lowell
February 6th, 2008 at 9:15 am

Yes, phil, the National Socialists were careful to conceal their crimes. It would seem that in their rush to dispose of European Jewry there was at least a vestigal conscience asserting itself somewhere in the background. Himmler was pained to see that the Einsatzpruppen commandos that did the machine gunning of Jews in such places as Babi Yar were pulled of the line if they faltered out of squeemishness in their perverse “duty”. Much was done to offer understanding to them but much more to place a seal of righteousness on the proceedings. Word of these atrocities leaked out, it was never broadcast. We do not seem to be any less proud – possibly more – of our war crimes by making public defenses of them. Its a very short step from Guantanamo to Mauthaussen.

Robert Benedetto
February 6th, 2008 at 11:10 am

Sorry for the delay, I had to find out what “w/e
and “LAWL” meant. Now that I’m caught up on the lingo:

I’m glad to see Ron’s following is as strong as it is, based on the replies given above. It is truly inspiring that my comments invoke such rage. Unfortunately the remarks regarding the posts on my “blag” (still not sure what that means) are somewhat misplaced.

Perhaps I didn’t make it clear on the site the purpose and source of my rants. They are 50% a joke, and 50% a real and sincere silent frustration that I chose to put to the keyboard. Sure they are bold, outlandish, and inappropriate at times, but that’s the point. There’s a dash of necessity to each.

If your job closes down, and decides we can pay someone in a foreign county, it doesn’t really matter which, to do your job. I’m pretty sure you’d be pissed, and likely to say things under your breathe, or simply to yourself you’d likely not want to be known for publicly. There is nothing wrong with being angry about that. Forgive me for wanting to pay my fellow citizens a fair wage for good work. It benefits me, my community, and my country. As an American, that should matter some.

The they stink, they stink part – come on, I know there are people out there that truly talk like this, but honestly, how can you not see the satire in that? Either way, that’s what it was, take a look at the zing page on my “blag” and you’ll see a notice about the comments made on the blog, you’ll see if I’m a bigot, I’m a bigot against everyone and anyone that does something wrong, stupid, or otherwise. It’s not Indian’s that are a problem, not Chinese, or Mexicans, etc, it’s our willingness to sacrifice American employment for the sake of getting cheaper goods and services, specially if the product quality is sacrificed.

I appreciate the details of how Ron’s opinions on race were skewed I believe by a disgruntled employee, but my point is, from a business man’s perspective, I find it hard to understand how these comments made it out there for as long as they did with out his noticing. Either way, I think the media’s attempts to constantly bring it up as though it is new, is sabotage, much like how they treated him in the debate. They want him silenced, I understand that, not because of the supposed comments, because he’s right about so much more. I’m an idiot for taking what happened years ago on his newsletter? Ok fine, that’s my choice, if some how he was to become president, good, I just hope the media was wrong (they normally are). But I condemn no man or woman for voting for him. Vote or don’t complain

Florida Frank
February 6th, 2008 at 11:26 am

I can’t believe McCain is under serious consideration.

My country, the USA, continues to go in the wrong direction.

We are not having the correct argument about foreign policy or about how to address radical Islam.

For example look at the irony of this quote:

“Al-Qaida remains the pre-eminent threat against the United States,” Mike McConnell told a Senate hearing more than six years after the Sept. 11 attacks.

McConnell is completely wrong. The biggest threat to the United States is the radical USA conservatives that attack other countries under the pretext of “making us safe”

The problems created by Iraq invasion are 100 times worse than anything Bin Laden could have done to us.

Look at our economy, world standing/credibility, more hatred, lost lives and limbs. For crying out loud another 911 would not have done near as much damage.

We are so stupid — we are doing his work for him.

Why no more attacks on US soil? Stupid question. Bogged down in Iraq (and soon Iran, Syria who knows) is destroying our country.

Bin Laden does not have to attack US soil in fact that would be a distraction from the bottomless pit of shame that we have thrown ourselves into.

Why aren’t we having the correct argument in this country?

bread&circuses
February 6th, 2008 at 11:45 am

Idiotic. The things people convince themselves of to keep their head exploding from the cognitive dissonance.

The “self-destruction” of the US started in earnest in the 19th century. Corporatism runs amok due to the establishment of the legal fiction of corporate personhood. The beginnings of the Military-Industrial complex. Destruction of state sovereignty and the Republic of the founders. Private banking cartel establishes its grip on the country. The empire spreads its wings and begins conquering territory outside N. America.

The final nails in the coffin came in the early to mid- 20th century –Federal Reserve, establishment of the National Security State (National Security Act of 1947, CIA, NSA, etc.) and the permanent war economy. Perpetual war for perpetual peace. Orwell was a prophet.

Everything that has happened since has been a foregone conclusion.

G C Collinsworth
February 6th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

Whenever the subject on making English the official language for doing state-business is brought up, it seems to be those from South of the border that make the most noise in protest.

Many of those doing the protesting say something along the lines of:

“Requiring us to speak English is the imposition of Europeon culture upon us.”

To which I respond:

“Hey moron, where the Hell do you think Spain is???” “Were it not for the Spanish Conquistadors, you’d probably still be worshiping the Sun and performing human sacrifice.”

Vassili
February 6th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

So that you don’t feel that your situation is unique, let me give you a bit of my Russian prospecitve on the “shall they spike this language or that” issue.

Originally there was USSR, where all the stinking nations lived under the russian big brother supervision and care… of course ALL of them (including russian people proper) bitched about the status quo… i.e. non-russins would complain that russians are taking away their freedoms, whereas russians felt that they spend too much time, money and effort on making “younger brothers” happy.

So – they decided to separate – under mutual agreement – and they did.

Then… evil West (namely the US of A) came in and started doing all the bad things that US of A is doing everywhere, but we’ll skip that part… then, slowly, at least in Russia the simple realization came in – screw them ALL, screw the West, screw the “younger borthers”… just leave us alone and keep the oil prices high and that would be it…

So, we are now coming to the language issue… millions and millions of “younger borhthes” came to Russia, and being inferior breed apparently, have taken all these inferiour jobs that proud citizens of Russia are not that eager to take – from construction to prostitusion (althogh later occumpation is still able to recruit enough locals – fortunately) – and then… they don’t want to learn Russian – they even want to have their own schools and instead going back to their stinking “states” they want to live in Russia and yet speak THEIR language….

So, I would gladly attribute that to evil West (US os A) conspiracy, if I would not be able to spot the same situation in US vs. Mexico relationship.

And also – living in Russia – what is my opinion on that? Let them speak only Russian, since otherwise we all will turn into these stinking muslim Azerbaidganians… on the other hand – the all-mighty US of A, fearing that it would turn into a suburb of Mexico is PLAIN FUNNY WEIRD IDEA… the whole World fears THEM, yet they are afraid of stinking Mexico, that can’t make their act together…

You be the judge. But that does not seem to be as important as it seems. More important is the issue of the Govt. of the US or A doing what is best for people that live under its supervision NOW -regardless of language they (or their parents) speak.

Vassili
February 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

“When Clinton Lied no body died”
Except for Yugoslavians….

Vassili
February 6th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

My dear friends.. the TRUTH is that “democracy” is the same kind of illusion as “communism”. Just take time to think about it.

President in the US of A is a puppet. He is controlled by the Oligarhy. Some argue that this Oligarthy is Zionst. But that is not very important.

Take your time to read “Prince” by Machiavelli.

Vassili
February 6th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Yes!!! I want to see the “final” during MY lifetime! So, let’s have the nuclear exchange and SEE what happens! For one, I would find out if there is life after death… as well how SDI is working in real life… For some reason I can’t kill myself myself, but if the “big boys” would to that I would not mind…

Eugene Costa
February 6th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Nonsense as usual. “English Only” is really one of the most absurd notions every to come out of the Neo-Nativists on both Right and Left, who both thereby declare themselves incompetent and unfamiliar with their own American history.

Do I have an inclination to argue the point?

No.

Should it ever come to anything official it will be resolved easily enough.

The hilarious part is that, besides being absurd, it is also against every American’s self-interest, including the exclusively Anglophone.

After Napoleon, never interfere when the enemy is making a mistake.

gary
February 6th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

are you kidding christians jews and moslims and all others have been killing each other and themselves since the beginning of those cults…yes religion has done much good but on balance millions have died over which imaginary god is better…do we realy need organized religion o tell us we should treat othes the way ewould like to treated

Eugene Costa
February 6th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

corr: “ever to come”

Eugene Costa
February 6th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

To Tim R:

You are obviously completely ignorant of American history, and its languages.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to instruct you.

Nor am I given to eristic.

The point at which anything like “English only” surfaces as official, it will be easily enough resolved legally and constitutionally, and at great cost to the deluded Neo-Nativists behind it.

Until then I encourage you in your ignorance.

JC
February 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Just as a matter of general interest.

An online poll was conducted in Oz on Yahoo7 yesterday (Wed.)asking Ausssies who they would prefer as the US Pres.

Result:

Clinton 44%

Obama 44%

McCain 8%

Huckabee 3%

Romney 1%

Hmmmm.. Sort of says it all really.

We have “kicked out” our right wing, conservative, war party, its overtime to get rid of yours!!

Fan of Raimondo and Garris
February 6th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

Here is the text of an email I sent out to both conservative and liberal friends to trick the fascists into supporting a libertarian cause. The subject line was “The ‘Hush Rush’ thought crimes bill.”

Linked below is an analysis of legislation (HR 1955) that was passed by the Democratic House of Representatives in October and is now being considered by the Senate (S-1959) that could put pundits like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Michael Savage and Bill O’Reilly in prison for thought crimes.

The bill is the brainchild of DEMOCRAT Jane Harmon of California. It could be used against war supporters and “neoconservatives” for “promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change” or for “threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual’s political, religious, or social beliefs.” Of course, it could also be used by President Hillary Clinton to go after George W. Bush for using the Iraq War (violence) to advance democracy (political change/political beliefs) in the Middle East.

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0802a.asp

Please forward this to all your conservative friends and urge them to demand their senators vote against this “hush Rush” legislation!

antonio moreno
February 6th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

You seem oblivious to the fact that all the western USA bears spanish names:cities,mountains,creeks; that when you took all northern Mexico, there were spanish speaking people there….So spanish is a native tonge in the USA in its own right…To pretend to impose english as the only lenguage in the country is nonsense..out of reality.

JC
February 6th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

“Democrat House of Reps”

“Democrat Jane Harmon”

Yes, but the vote in the House I believe was as follows:

404 ayes
6 nays
&22 not voting

Hell, I didn,t know there were that many Democrats in the House! Sure fooled me, I thought that there were Republicans too!
Go’s to show us Aussies don’t know zip about your system.

Kenneth
February 6th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

That’s one mindless slogan that deserves to be laid to rest.

Fan of Raimondo and Garris
February 6th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

It was a bipartisan vote for Big Brother, but the purpose of the email was to trick Republican voters into opposing the legislation. Why Republicans? Because they control the media. Talk radio in the USA is overwhelmingly conservative. Cable “news” is overwhelmingly conservative. Everything else leans conservative.

Tim R.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:17 pm

Fan of Raimondo and Garris writes: “Talk radio in the USA is overwhelmingly conservative. Cable “news” is overwhelmingly conservative. Everything else leans conservative.”

You are probably right about talk radio but cable TV? You consider that big mouth, Keith Olberman on MSNBC to be conservative? Why does MSNBC put him on TV, doing hard news analysis as though he were some sort of impartial journalist? I have no problem that he is partisan and biased on his own “Countdown” show. That is fine. But why do they put him on TV, chatting it up with Tom Brokaw and Brian Williams? He is obviously biased. I would say the same thing if Fox News had Bill O’Reilly doing election night commentary. People like O’Reilly and Olberman should stick to their own programs and leave news reporting to journalists.

Stanley Laham
February 7th, 2008 at 12:25 am

On the question of interventionism, I would advise all to keep an eye on Serbia and its province of Kosovo. With US-EU-NATO backing, Kosovois about to secede. The final act in the dismemberment of Yusgoslavia is afoot.

Will Russia and the Serbs accept this Bismarckian Realpolitic move and their maginalization in the Balkans? Russia certainly possesses the military hardware to put a giant stick in the wheels of Western Expansionism. But can it muster the political wil?

subHuman
February 7th, 2008 at 5:17 am

Russia and Mr. Putin are the new Shining City on the Hill and the ONLY hope humanity has.

Beter grave than a SLAVE!
Liberty or death!

richard vajs
February 7th, 2008 at 6:34 am

Tim R,
You and other Zionism supporters constantly point out that Israel has a right to “defend itself”. Of course, they do. But don’t the Palestinians have the same right? If Israel threatens to turn Gaza into another Warsaw Ghetto, don’t the Palestinians have the same right to answer collective punishment with collective punishment? What Zionist Israel is doing is absolutely insane – forever alienating 300 million Arabs, 1.5 Billion Muslims and a lot of the rest of the World just to advance the interests of a colony of 5 million Jews. This will end badly in the long run. And America is even more insane – backing this ruinous policy to our own ruin. I have become convinced that America will destroy itself defending Israel’s insanity with foreign wars of conquest. This insanity must be examined and discussed not forbidden by media bias and AIPAC sponsored “domestic terrorism legislation”.

Adam
February 7th, 2008 at 8:06 am

McCain and company are making me sick when they tell American people that if we loss in Iraq the will come after us here!! that is the most outrageous thing i ever heard, scary tactics.

I, as a us citizen, have been trying to get my brother a visa for the past 3 years with no luck, so how in the hell terrorist going to come here and kills us all????? why is the media not asking this question when they (politicians) bring this crab up?

come on gimme a break.

The Die Hard
February 7th, 2008 at 10:23 am

“Would be an 18-hole golf course, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That needs to be a .sig file.

Jason Maggard
February 7th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Yep, those darn Navajos had better start learning English or go back where they came from.

Oh, wait, was that a really stupid thing to say??

Seriously though, I’m amazed at how we can force people to attend at least 12 years of school and still wind up with a republic full of dunces.

Dave Libori
February 7th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

With respect to the “official language” of the USA, why is it so hard to accept that there should be a consensus about the language in which we deal with our government? As an immigrant married to an immigrant, we both accepted the notion that we have to live by the rules and customs of those that live here. Otherwise we are not immigrants but invaders, with the perfect right and duty of the locals to kick us out by any means necessary.
Those who advocate open borders and handouts and accomodation for outsiders are typically the ones that want to be generous at the expense of others.
It would be interesting to see La Raza’s response when 20 Million “undocumented” Chinese come into Southern California, taking the jobs of the Mexicans. Would they advocate drivers licenses and welfare signs in Mandarin?

peace
February 7th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

Tom Brokaw and Brian Williams are so obviously biased.

Fan of Raimondo and Garris
February 7th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

Olbermann versus Glenn Beck, Joe Scarborough, Chris Mathews (who is the biggest kiss-ass on TV), Tucker Carlson, EVERYONE on Fox and various others. Yeah, I stand by what I said.

Fan of Raimondo and Garris
February 7th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

Now that Romney has dropped out to clear the way for McCain, his sons are free to join the army–unless they’d rather surrender to terrorists.

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

What you accept or do not accept has nothing to do with an official “English Only” law or policy.

You obviously also don’t know much American history, or the territory that well, in which other languages than English are prominent and have been even before the United States became independent of Britain.

As I said above, English as an official language is obviously unconstitutional and specifically or implicitly prohibited by any number of treaties.

As for the rest, it is blowing smoke, perhaps for political purposes.

And for your information there are already many thousands, if not tens of thousands of undocumented mainland Chinese in the US, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands.

You are either disingenuous or you are not looking in the right place.

More important, there are hundreds of thousands of other undocumented foreign nationals in the US, perhaps millions, including many Canadians.

I certainly do want to take the immigration issue up with you, but in fact for most of American history most immigration was undocumented.

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Incidentally, here’s an interesting question for the real and potential Neo-Know-Nothings–what is the official language of Italy?

Look it up in your Funk And Whatever–I suspect you will very surprised.

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Corr:”certainly do not want to”

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 7:33 pm

And if you want to go the “official” route, the minimum number of official languages in the US might look something like the list below:

English
French
Spanish
German
Dutch
Russian
Swedish
Inuit
All Amerindian Tribal Languages
Creole

And that’s just a quick and superficial sketch–there might be other additions someone else would like to make.

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

In fact, not only do the Navajos have the right to have every document from the Federal government in their own language, if a Navajo gets elected to Congress he or she would have the implicit right to have all oral and written proceedings translated into Navajo.

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

Imagone the annual translation expenses and the jobs for translators.

Probably the cost of two hours of the Iraq War.

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

Have all the relevant local, state, and federal statute books been translated into Navajo or Apache yet? You Official English Only Neo-Nativists, including the recent arrivals, better get started finding the translators–it’s going to be a very big and time-consuming and expensive job..

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

In fact, even if there is not move toward an Official English, the Navajo could still demand the same thing anytime they want.

So glad you Neo-Know-Nothings brought the matter up.

Eugene Costa
February 7th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

And I hear good English-Navajo translators come very, very dear.

John Lowell
February 7th, 2008 at 10:49 pm

I thought you might like that, The Die Hard. The simile is something of a specialty here. You need to be able to reach a bit where McCain is concerned. The pedestrian just won’t do. :-)

cedar
February 7th, 2008 at 11:57 pm

“Obamba, the big phony that he is, said something like “Of couse people should learn English but those questions are too devisive.” Devisive? What is devisive is millions of people living in a country and not speaking the language!”

Tim, it’s spelled DIVISIVE. Maybe you should take some time and learn your own damn language.

Vassili
February 10th, 2008 at 3:20 am

Excuse me, but the deception started even earlier – the very notion of “democracy” is as deceptive as “communism”. In fact – both are theories to camuflage secretive oligopolic regimes as something new, original, “progressive” and good for the majority of the population.

I think humanity lived these terrible last 250 years of suffering and lies to finally start getting back to the basics of personal freedom. I’d say it is the Internet that is doing the job – since for the first time since the invention of the printing press the capabilities of a single, private person to reach the world wide audience are similar in scope with major governments.

Notice though the ferrocity of the attacks on this new media by introduction of “intellectual property” laws, which in effect allow to once again completely silence the individual voice.

On the other hand – the countries that excersise less of these speach and mind control techniques will be gaining as we progress into the 21st century. The very good news is that although the suppression of personal freedoms and Orwellian style regimes seem very powerful and solid, they lack the ability to really motivate people and shall share the ill fate of the old Roman Empire. Fortunately, not only wild animals don’t reproduce well in captivity, but human’s as well. Falling fertility rates in the US and the West in general show that clearly. Woman (and man) don’t want to deliver babies into prison cells.

Viva la resistance :-)

Vassili
February 10th, 2008 at 3:51 am

Of course Russia has – yet, before SDI system is fully in place – the weapon and gaining will.

But – the separation of Kosovo – although not good for Serbia, is also not good for Europe – an implant of US-backed jihad in the very middle of it.

And Serbia is not Belorussia – I can’t remember one event when it did something beneficial to Russia – other then in the 90s where Russians clearly saw WHAT is our ideal fate in the Pax Americance. That was stupid of US, but the desire was so strong – to even symbolically do to Russia what was dreamed for decades… so the actions on Serbia/Kosovo became irrational. Well – God Loves Russia.

Now, to me Europe (as the most of the rest of the World is) is US occupation zone. There would be potential unrest in the midst of it.

Why US is doing that? Maybe because Europe is naturally leaning towards affiliation with the rest of Eurasia – be it Russia or Iran or China. It also seems unevitable that it will be gaining more and more independance from the Pax Americana Empire. Since it is inevitable – planting any of the bad stuff in it is good for the US. May weaken euro and what not.

But… why should Russia – AGAIN – sacrifice itself for protecting Europe, that have never been grateful for such efforts? Also, in practical life – Russia has always managed to set better relationship with islamic people.

Now – I completely fail to understand how Kosovo can benefit the US in the longer run, but I’d just assume that God Loves Russia and that’s it. And then – stepping up heroin production in Afganistan and providing means of transpartation of it to Kosovo by US military planes also does not make sense – in the big picture – but it certainly benefits certain groups in the US. So – the last days of Roman Empire “logic”?

indian religion and politics pre 1947
July 4th, 2008 at 2:07 am

indian religion and politics pre 1947…

Sorry, don’t agree 100% with you on this!…

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