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Posted October 9, 2001
Turkey
Mr. Deliso article ... ["Turkey's Eclipse," October 5] only motivates the Turks to do better. The secret of the Turks is that they are patient. Better times will come.
As
we all know, the world is nearing to a new,
probably disastrous, war. In this kind of atmosphere
you put an article yesterday onto this supposed-to-be
pro-peace site, which is openly accusing and
insulting a nation, a country. It's written
by Christopher Deliso. I condemn his attack
on a nation and condemn the antiwar site for
publishing this article on its site.
I will not argue about Cyprus issue nor about Armenian issue. I will just mention some of his funny mistakes here. Look at these sentences:
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"Ever since, Tuesday has meant good luck to Turks and bad luck for the Greeks."
I've never heard of [this], and yesterday I made a little search with about 100 people. Nobody has any idea about it. It may be reality for Greeks, but not for Turks. If there were a lucky day, it would be Friday for Turks. Everybody I asked yesterday answered Friday.
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Hundreds of thousands of Anatolian Turks were forcibly relocated to Cyprus.
If the reality were so , Turks in Cyprus would be the majority. Its population is now 160,000. How could hundreds of thousands be the true?
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In the Adjara region of southern Georgia, the Turkish minority is clamoring for independence.
Turkish minority? I did not know The Adjaras were Turks, I just knew they were just Muslims. How ignorant I am!
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Any student of Anatolian history knows that the region of "Armenia" (at various times, a powerful medieval kingdom) was much larger than the pitifully small country which Turkey bullies even today.
Wow, we should set up great Armenia again! -- since any student of Anatolian history knows great Armenia? How about creating again great Byzantium? Does any student of American history not know there was a a powerful medieval American Indian culture?
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Yet you can bet if the Turks ever make it through, and minarets start going up in Dublin, or the amplified Arabic wailing rings out over Oslo, the whisper will become a roar, and the "cultural war" which bin Laden is presently trying to bring about will happen for real.
Wow, what a confession! -- Turkey is on bin Laden's side.
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The funniest one is at the end of the article: an earthquake will kill millions of Turks and ruin the country and Cristopher will be happy to rid the world of Turks.
While I cannot tell whether Mr. Deliso is unhappy about the calamities he claims faces Turkey or he is delighted to list them, I can say this: Turks and Turkey are much stronger and resilient than he can ever imagine. They also happen to be the one of the least warlike people among those I have met (yes, I am ethnically Turkish and I have met almost all nationalities). If Mr. Deliso is antiwar, as claimed by your website, he should make a better effort to get to know Turks, not just on the surface.
Christopher Deliso replies:
Many thanks to the concerned readers of Turkish extraction who have offered their reactions to my piece. Owing to the largely hostile nature of these replies, I would like to clarify a couple points.
First,
one reader did correctly point out that
the number of Anatolian Turks relocated
to Cyprus was too high; "hundreds of
thousands" was a typo, and this has
been fixed in the article. Other than that,
I feel eminently justified in my opinions.
Readers who were angered by my prediction
of a frosty European welcome to Turks, in
the event of EU accession, failed to understand
that here I was criticizing European leaders
for a history of duplicitous and dishonest
diplomacy with Turkey. I was not criticizing
Turkey for seeking EU accession, or disagreeing
with any of its own initiatives. Yet the
target of my sarcasm was apparently lost
on many.
Most disturbing to me was the accusation
that I am anti-Turkish by orientation, or
anti-Muslim. Guess what folks, I have spent
considerable time in your country, respected
your customs and rules, and to this day
I have Turkish, Turkish-American, and Kurdish
friends. I have an interest in the history
of it and an appreciation for Turkey's natural
beauty. In my travel articles I have promoted
and continue to promote your country as
a desirable destination, and so this is
why it saddens me to receive this kind of
reaction.
The point is, Antiwar.com is a forum for
discussions of governmental policy and actions
-- not an attack on individuals based
on their nationality. I trust that the variety
of sources I employ is evident from my articles.
Finally, Turks (and everyone) should remember
that strong criticism is made only when
there is a possibility it might improve
things. If there is no point of saving a
situation, there's no point in talking about
it, either. I suggest you take the approach
of the first respondent, who said that "the
Turks are aware of these problems and your
article only makes us try harder for the
future."
Thank you, yakshamlar.
Immigration
The other day I was reading Justin Raimondo's piece about the agenda's that everyone seems to pushing in war time ["Hidden Agenda," October 1] when something funny occurred. Raimondo was joking about his own agenda being that the United States should close its frontiers for immigrants. While I wondered what the joke was leading up to and why it took so long for Raimondo to acknowledge it (or for me to understand it), a sickening thought came to me. Then I read the relevant lines once more. And then, reluctantly, I forced myself to accept the sickening thought: Raimondo wasn't joking at all. He actually does want immigration to the United States to be stopped.
Here was a libertarian who actually proposed a useful task for government -- a task that it will love to perform, at that. Here was someone who proposed that a nation whose greatness, indeed whose very existence, is due to immigration, a nation where the perennial drive of resentful elites to consolidate their power into an oligarchy has time and again been frustrated by the sheer number of newcomers, should stop immigration once for all. Here was an intelligent man arguing that since (a) Americans do not indulge much in terrorism and (b) the United States is one of its chief targets, it must follow that terrorism is something distinctly un-American.
Well, it does not follow. It is like arguing that a man who is hated, envied and molested on account of his power and wealth must therefore himself be exempt of hatred or envy, or of the impulse to molest others. (It is also to forget that an American institution, the CIA, has been among the world's chief sponsors of terrorist activity.) But even if it did follow, even if it were true that Americans are somehow inherently innocent of terrorist impulses, would that amount to a justification for frustrating the hopes of those who wish to become Americans? I don't see how. Oh, I understand the irritation of many Americans about official US immigration policies and I share it -- but Raimondo is not attacking policies, he is attacking immigration as such.
Could it be that the terrorist atrocities of September 11 are to blame for Raimondo's unlibertarian lapse? Have those atrocities caused even American libertarians to lose their critical senses and fall for the highly dubious ideas of Hans Hermann Hoppe? If so, it would mean that the terrorists of this world and their open and covert supporters have one more reason to congratulate themselves. A depressing thought.
~ Koen J. de Groot, Amsterdam, Netherlands
Justin Raimondo replies: I am opposed to immigration, and have long advocated that it end on much the same grounds as Hans-Hermann Hoppe. This position, by the way, preceded 9/11 by a number of years.
Feminism and Afghanistan
In response to the conversation between the feminist Marya Mart and Justin Raimondo ["Feminism and the Third World War," September 27]:
I am not a feminist. Not at all. I am a stay at home mom with four kids. My husband works hard every day and I stay at home cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids and helping with his business. I greatly admire the "Proverbs Wife."
But my heart aches for the women of Afghanistan. You don't have to be feminist to ache when women are so mistreated, treated as non-persons. Their gifts, thoughts and intelligence forgotten and ignored because of their gender.
What's more, I care about women in other countries no matter who my president is. I've always found it funny how silent all these great feminist such as Ms. Smeal are/were on the plight of Eastern European women at the hands of Albanians and "Bosniaks." It's funny how they don't complain about them using Bosnia and Kosovo as a market place for their booming sex-slave trade. Their cries of protest for their "sisters" and pleads for their liberation are only sounded if it's politically correct and if the war or action necessary is one they would sanction. It is very much like the US government labeling "terrorist" according to whom is being terrorized.
Pinhead Position
In his response to Marya Hart's letter ("Feminism and the Third World War"), Justin Raimondo is quite right to castigate Eleanor Smeal and her organization for their revolting jetée onto the war wagon. Go get 'er, Justin! However, assuming that her views are representative of "most" or "many" feminists is about as silly as assuming that Al Sharpton or Angela Davis represents the views of "most" African-Americans. Y'all especially ought to know better since you've undoubtedly been on the receiving end of the "libertarians are mostly dope-smoking, tax-dodging cheapskates" malarkey.
Speaking as a proudly strident, shrill, huffy, pallid feminist harpy, I assure you that there are a fair amount of us who do not share Smeal's pinhead position, who are quite able to understand that the byzantine complexities of Afghanistan, the Taliban, the equally (or more) godawful Northern Oppression Alliance, Pakistan puppetry, CIA buffoons and scoundrels, and so on, and so on, cannot be reduced to some simplistic "they mistreat women; ergo, we must commit mass murder" mantra.
The feminists I know think that it is indeed unfortunate that Afghan women are, for instance, frequently beaten for showing their faces. We think it's equally unfortunate that American women are frequently beaten just for the sheer fun of it. The feminists I know also adhere to the basic principle that forcing foreigners (or anybody, really) at gunpoint to gulp down one's pet doctrines -- with or without beneficent intention -- is one of those hallmarks of old-boy-world that really need to be interred in ... "history's unmarked grave of discarded lies."
Buffer Zone
As I read now of President Bush's plan to create a buffer zone from Islamic terrorism in the Balkan's, I am reminded of Mike Wallace's interview with Radovan Karadzic from a few years ago when Mr. Wallace feigned a sense of disbelief as Dr. Karadzic suggested that the Serbians would some day be vindicated for their repression of Islamic militants in Bosnia and Kosovo.
Back then Mr. Wallace's smug and condescending tone toward the Serbian sense of being Christianity's last line of defense for Europe seemed to suggest how foolish Dr. Karadzic and his delusional countrymen were, however, after the events of September 11th and the ever-increasing reports of Osama bin Laden's financial support of Bosnian Muslim and Albanian terrorism in the Balkans, it is now Dr. Karadzic who appears prophetic and Mr. Wallace who looks the part of the fool.
~ Alex G.