’s Crisis of Conscience

Via David Freddoso, over at National Review, this gem of an email from

Should we support primary challengers against some Democrats who side with the president on Iraq? It’s a tough question, and one we need everybody’s input on. Click below to fill out our survey and let us know what you think…”

It’s a hard question, admittedly: should we sell out completely, forget about the war, and become an adjunct of the Democratic party? The real question, of course, is: since when have they been anything else?

By all means, let know what you think


26 thoughts on “’s Crisis of Conscience”

  1. Isn’t it hilarious how the organs of the Republican Party (Fox News, etc.) do not ask these questions? The party leadership has an agenda and anyone, even those within the party, not on board with that agenda is vilified and scorned. It’s the reverse for the Democrats. Their agenda is getting someone from their party into office. So the party organs (Moveon, blogs, etc) can’t decide if they should vilify certain candidates within the party. Ah, but it all makes sense when you realize that the party leaders have the exact same agenda as the party leaders of the Republicans. What kills me is that the plebes in both parties seem not to notice this.

  2. Aw man. Why’d you link to that? Isn’t it obvious that it’s a means to solicit email addresses and donations?

  3. I can remember a time right after the Congressional elections last Fall when posting at Glenn Greenwald’s blog that there should be absolutely no reason whatsoever for optimism regarding it’s outcome until the MCA were abrogated and the dictatorship of which it was evidence dismantled. I was very nearly assaulted by Greenwald immediately thereafter, my thoughts characterized by him as “cheap and destructive”. One wonders in light of developments over he last ten months if Greenwald might now wish to retract those remarks?

    Greenwald’s enthusiasm for the potential for real change inherent in the system and that most specifically possible under Democratic Party auspices is more than a little typical of the mind-numbing naivete of leftish, system “progressives”, and none more frighteningly so than that at All evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, these folks just can’t shake the notion that the Democrats offer something genuine in the way of an alternative. All the griping in the world about Bush, the neo-cons, the war, violations of privacy and the like are just so much pallaver until one fully grasps the fact that our public life suffers most fundamentally from a kind of alien ownership. Until that happens, all constructs regarding remedial measures can possess only a limited relevance. It seems to me that alliances with people of the stripe hold little promisefor persons seriously wishing to see an end to the present state of affairs.

    John Lowell

    1. I like GG’s articles, the GG letters are entertaining but not particularly inspiring. Most of them order the blue plate special and ignore the rest of the menu.

  4. MoveOn has always been a tool of the Democratic Party. As has the Daily Kos. There is nothing sweeter than when they are forced to overtly display their hypocrisy.

    If you want a good example of left news without the support of the Democrat Party it can be found at Raw Story, which does a good job of keeping its editorial and content articles separated, and its reader comments are cynical and vocal progressives who shed any Democratic Party loyalties a long time ago. Fun.

    1. Daily Kos a tool of the Democrats? You don’t say! Somebody had better tell that to Cindy Sheehan. Oh wait, they already have… she was banned because she might run against Pelosi, but more importantly because she might not run as a Democrat.

      I love the way they go into meltdown over the “Ron Paul Issue”, e.g. “We have our Ron Paul, his name is Gravel/Kucinich”. MoveOn should be proud…

      1. Daily KOS is worse than just a party organ of the Democratic Party like MoveOn. It’s like a DP-loving version of The people are all ape-#@$% crazy except they have loyalties to a different party.

        (What’s fun, is to mention this to them.)

    2. The Democratic Party had already been given it’s second chance in 1932 after the corporate empire had destroyed the American system —- and all that FDR did was to “save capitalism from itself” and allow the global corporate political/economic empire to rise like the vampire that it has now become under the guise of “Vichy America”.

      The Democratic party is nothing but one of the three con artists in this “Three Card Monte” that the global corporate Empire is playing on the honest, but ill-informed, non-elite American rubes. We are ill-informed precisely because the corporate Empire’s MSM is playing the role of the ‘objective observer’ in this Three Card Monte, but is actually, as is ALWAYS true of Monte schemes, not really an objective observer, but actually one of the three con artists involved in roping the rubes in —- the other two roles being the two scammer parties, who switch their Monte roles from ‘dealer’ to ‘player’ every few rounds.

      Like ALL Three Card Monte scams the two-party, Republicans and Democrats, AND the MSM are actually ACTIVE participants and con-artists in this Three Card Monte — since ALL Three Card Monte schemes are ALWAYS based on EVERYONE other than the rubes themselves BEING IN ON THE CON!!!

      Both parties and the MSM must be TOTALLY expunged (if not surgically excised) from the essentially combined political-economic decision making by real people in a real democracy if this guileful ruling-elite global corporate Empire behind the facade of “Vichy America” is ever to be removed, like a cancer, from the body of a real self-governing America and the American people.

      My position is that the ENTIRE scamming and corrupt global corporate Empire’s system of a phony “Vichy America” disguise in the form of this ENTIRE Three Card Monte scam of Republican and Democrat and MSM con game must be exposed, destroyed and thrown out, (PERIOD)

      No to Republicans political party hacks. No to Democrat political party hacks. No to MSM shilling hacks. No to MoveOn hacks. And most particularly, No to the global corporate Empire with all its cast of private Equity Pirates, Hedge Fund Whores, Wall Street swindlers, and crooked corporate judges. The whole system is only a “Vichy America” facade over the overtly fascist global corporate Empire that has taken over our democracy.

      The American people have been far too polite and accepting of this deadly internal errosion of our country and democracy, and the combined economic and military hardships that we are about to experience will hopefully insure that the coming crash will not be met by quiet Americans in soup-lines and VA hospital lines, but by an engaged and enraged American people in the streets.

  5. I think some of the comments above are not constructive. Instead of calling other people names and amplifying the sectarianism and divisions within the antiwar movement, we should welcome this initiative by MoveOn’s leadership. Maybe they won’t follow through, or maybe they will follow through too timidly, time will tell, but at least it’s a step in the right direction. Ending the occupation of Iraq and putting the brakes on imperialist adventures abroad is like turning around an ocean liner: it requires a lot of effort and time. So please let’s put the emphasis on supporting and reinforcing each others’ positive actions instead of sniping about our differences. Personally, I’d gladly vote for Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul. I’d also gladly vote for Ralph Nader or Pat Buchanan. If we could be lucky enough that more than one of them appear on the ballot, then I’ll worry about making finer distinctions. In the meantime, I’d like to think that we’re all allies in the same cause.

    1. I’d like to agree with you, but these same people were in favor of Bill Clinton’s interventions (dropping bombs on people for humanitarian reasons) and are calling for more of the same in Darfur. I don’t think many of the MoveOn’ers want to turn the ship around I think they just want to turn it 15 degrees and continue in the same basic direction. With a captain who proffers platitudes more appealing to their emotions and preferences than the current captain (who seems barely competent in the language).

      Seeing put up a webpage saying “How likely would you be to give us your money if we acted on principle?” in so many words isn’t exactly inspiring. It doesn’t make MoveOn seem like a great ally to the antiwar movement to me.

      It’s like the politicians who are retiring coming out against continuing in the Iraq Quagmire indefinitely after it has become wildly unpopular. Such courage and moral leadership we can do just as well without.

    2. When bleeding hearts drop bombs they church up their rhetoric so that the reasons we are bombing are “humanitarian”.

    3. The purpose of MoveOn, as a quasi-DP organ, it to keep as many liberals as possible from bolting the party. The DP leaderships reasoning is that it’s better to sidetrack their party’s antiwar faction than cut them loose.

  6. Beware Sheep in Progressive Clothing

    The progressive base of the Democratic Party was used and abused in the ’06 elections. It will be interesting to see if they bolt from the flock, or line up to get sheared, like they did only a year ago. baaaa….

  7. “Give us money if you want us to do the decent thing.” How disgusting is Thank you,, for reenlightening me.

  8. was founded to “move on” past the obsession with the Executive’s illegal activities (that would be Clinton’s suborning perjury).

    Due to the Republicans’ justly-deserved reputation as intrusive prudes, the “it’s just about sex” mantra sold well. But it was actually about equality before the law.

    So moveon’s raison d’etre was in fact “allow the Executive to do whatever he wants”. Bush is now doing (decider-ing) to do whatever he wants…how can moveon complain?

  9. Lots of harsh comments about, but it is to their credit that they are soliciting membership advice.

    I am one Moveon member who is furious and heartbroken by the behavior of bush’s Democratic enablers and would happily support primary challengers or Republican opponents in the Ron Paul tradition.

  10. Why must this post come through my Moveon e-mail notice.

    Stop riding Moveon’s coat tail into to my homepage !!!
    get your own website and encourage BillO’s group to join you.

  11. Well, it’s up to I suppose. If they want Democrat party power or if they want the war to end. I gotta’ pretty good guess which way this goes — always take the power, and then you can make happy happy later. (Note to the cynical: later never comes, but never mind that.)

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