The Spineless Huffington Post Gives ‘Equal Time’
Huffington Post was so very kind this week to give space to almost frustratingly moderate Palestinian intellectual Dr. Mustafa Barghouthi. In his well-reasoned article, “Palestine’s Guernica and the Myths of Israeli Victimhood,” he supplied all the basic facts behind the problems in Palestine. One would expect the hordes of so-called “liberal” Democrat ignoramuses who infect that publication’s comment areas to bleat tired, false old bromides about Israel’s porcelain-white innocence in the face of attacks by grizzled Arab barbarians, but what gives with the long disclaimer marring the top of Barghouthi’s article?
“HuffPo” runs all kinds of commentary from all over the political spectrum (or at least its leftish side), but only those who dare speak against the sainted Israelis seem to require an editorial explanation that resembles an apology.
Shame on Huffington Post for its disgusting lack of integrity.
Carol Watson
December 31st, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I’ve looked around Huff Post and cannot find where they have used a similar cowardly disclaimer as they have for Dr. Barghouthi’s article:
This is a guest post written by Mustafa Barghouthi, Secretary General of the Palestinian National Initiative. These comments and views are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Huffington Post…
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Dan A.
December 31st, 2008 at 4:00 pm
If you need a politically correct disclaimer for an article that protests the human equivalent of shooting legless turkeys in a barn, well, something is a bit “off.” It’s strange, how you never see such a disclaimer over Dershowitz’s masochistic, state-worshiping Israeli apologia.
Jamie Kelso
December 31st, 2008 at 4:17 pm
80% of the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza are from families forcibly expelled from their ancestral homes in the lands that the Israelis took from Palestinians in 1948 and since. With incredible stupidity, and savagery, the Israelis are killing civilians, women, children, old people, with American smart bombs, helicopters, F-16s…all 100% paid for by you, the American taxpaying sucker. Proportionately to their population of 1.5 million versus our population of 300 million, approximately 500 dead in 3 days would equal 100,000 American dead. What would be the right treatment for any nation that aggressively attacked and killed 100,000 Americans, including at least 25,000 women and children, in the first three days of a one-sided “war” (with American weapons coming out of the sky)? Oh…I forgot, the blockaded Palestinians, cut off from food, water, sanitation, medicine, doctors, with no open airports or harbors or roads, have some bottle rockets that have killed fewer people than potato chips or deer have in the U.S. Oh, I forgot something else…how many “Christian” Zionists in the U.S. know that the 2,000-year-old Christian population of Palestine (including what is called Israel) has been sytematically destroyed by the Israelis since 1948? Gee, your newspapers and TV didn’t tell you that? Hmm. Wonder why.
richard vajs
December 31st, 2008 at 4:53 pm
The other morning I was watching Washington Journal on CSPAN. The first three callers (Democrat, Republican and Independent) all expressed anti-Israeli comments. The host, with a pained look on his face, said something to the effect that “that is enough from the callers, let’s now go to a representative from the Israeli Embassy for his comments”. I’ll bet someone was screaming in his earpiece. The wheels are falling off of the big, big Zionist propaganda juggernaut.
richard vajs
December 31st, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Regarding my comment about Washington Journal and their switch from caller’s comments to an Israeli spokesperson after 5 minutes of anti-Israeli comments from the first three callers – if you don’t watch the show, generally the first half hour of the show is devoted to the callers before guest “experts” come on.
RCW
December 31st, 2008 at 9:12 pm
No surprise there Richard.
My local television stations here in Los Angeles continue to interview Israelis who are “traumatized” by the Hamas bottle rocket attacks, and continually flood us with images of an Israeli flag-draped coffin (likely 1 of 2) being carried around. These broadcasts leave the impression that both sides are evenly matched and evenly suffering. None of the local stations tell you anything about the great disparity in military hardware which exists between the two sides, or for that matter, tell you how many Israelis have been killed by the bottle rocket attacks. I also notice that American newcasters refrain from using the word “occupation” and instead refer to them as “disputed territories.”
I wonder if most Americans are aware that they have a media apparatus so drowned in pro-zionist propaganda, that it makes the old Soviet Pravda look like a beacon of truth and objectivity?
Sad.
Kenneth
December 31st, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Right on the nose, Richard. After decades of efficacious and insidious propaganda, the Israeli Moloch is finally displaying its true colours for all the world to see. There’s the silver lining to this cloud: the Zionists will have a hell of a time convincing the world of their imagined moral rectitude after this.
Paul
December 31st, 2008 at 9:43 pm
There is a good reason that the comment section doesn’t always reflect reality. It is strongly moderated and most pro-Palestinan opinions are not allowed. I’ve commented a couple of dozen times in the last couple of years about the conflict, but only a few ever appeared.
A couple of days ago the there was some complaining about the lack of freedom from others, but my complaints never appeared.
The readers actually can be quite well imformed when the moderators keep their hands off.
Orville H. Larson
December 31st, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Piss on Alan Douchewitz–er, Dershowitz. He’s a rabid Zionist whack job who always sides with the boys in Tel Aviv.
How do you explain the fact that Huffington Post stifles criticism of Israel? You think they’ve been bought off by Israel Lobby money?
Blah Blah
December 31st, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Huffpo isnt spineless. Hypocritical yes, spineless no. They will screw anyone over if it helps make the blog and ariana more money. Arinna is one who publicly preaches constitutional rights, free speech and all that, but when it comes to her domain, she is a dictator through and through.
Usama Bin Goldstein
December 31st, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Didn’t Arianna Huffington used to be married to Michael Huffington, former Republican candidate for Governor? And wasn’t she also a supportor of Newt Gingrich at one point?
I believe Arianna only become a “progressive Democrat” after her husband Michael left her … for another man.
It seems that Airhead Huffington is an opportunist more than anything else.
Bob Bogus
December 31st, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Yeah, what’s up with that disclaimer??? I guess I never got the memo that says we’re all Israelis now.
Andy
December 31st, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Given the pathologies of American politics and mainstream journalism I don’t feel it is possible for the Arab street to be given a fair voice. Americans remain woefully ignorant about the true state of affairs in the world. They’d rather watch American Idol.
Dan Carson
December 31st, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Bottle rockets. Right. Try telling the truth and people might take your idiotic ramblings seriously.
Adele
December 31st, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Right to the core of the problem. Totally agree. I have had similar experience here.
DJ
January 1st, 2009 at 12:22 am
You can’t recognize a metaphor, but then accuse someone of idiotic ramblings? Practice what you preach, Jocko!
Richard Steven Hack
January 1st, 2009 at 12:33 am
Huffington is a hypocrite, like Josh Marshall over at TPM.
I was banned from Marshall’s site for comments critical of Israel that pushed his “crypto-Zionist” hot button. He never had the nerve to engage me one on one in the threads posted on Israel, but he was willing to ban me the very week he told everyone he would not ban anybody without warnings and reasons.
I then exposed this hypocrisy over at HuffPo – and was banned there.
Both Arianna Huffington and John Marshall are “crypto-Zionists” who can allow Israel to be criticized or it might interfere with their Web revenue if the AIPAC crowd starts in on them. It’s that simple.
DeAnna
January 1st, 2009 at 1:27 am
I’ve had the same experience with Huffpost….
Anything with an anti-Israeli opinion is often….no…damn near always subject to being censored.
Hypocrites.
mick
January 1st, 2009 at 1:57 am
“They’d rather watch American Idol.”
Mission Accomplished
R. Nelson
January 1st, 2009 at 3:24 am
Licking Israeli combat boots is what happens if one’s done too much Huffing.
ummabdulla
January 1st, 2009 at 3:41 am
The Huffington Post doesn’t make any attempt to be objective, or even factually accurate. More than a year ago, they posted a piece by Benazir Bhutto (which was obviously written by her PR firm), and they put this in her bio: “Ms. Benazir Bhutto, at the age of 35, became the youngest Chief Executive in the world and the first Prime Minister in the Muslim world.”
I wrote them to point out that this was obviously wrong – perhaps they meant the “youngest WOMAN Chief Executive” and “the first WOMAN Prime Minister in the Muslim world” (although I’m not even sure if that’s true).
They ignored my message, and the bio is still there saying the same thing.
I also tried to comment, just laying out basic facts about her and her husband (now the Prime Minister), not in an offensive or abusive way. They were always rejected.
fwfwefwefw
January 1st, 2009 at 5:27 am
huffington post SUCKS, most of all for being zionist SHIT. But also because:
-censorship of readers comments is WAY out of control.
-they shove right wing talking heads in your face on a daily basis. Elizabeth Hasselback every day!
-their entertainment page is probably the meanest career bashing I’ve ever seen. They are particularly brutal against scientologists and nicole kidman for some reason.
-they spread blatantly anti-Atkins diet propaganda, protecting the carb industry.
-they spread anti-vitamin supplement propaganda, protecting the pharmaceutical industry.
FUCK HUFFINGTON POST. ARIANNA GO LICK A DOGS ASSHOLE UNTIL IT BLEEDS.
humanistforall
January 1st, 2009 at 5:45 am
The only way to get an critical comments posted on Huff Po policies and practices is to play games with the appearance of keywords, and then they only last as long as those who profess offense do not flag them repeatedly. I imagine it’s much like the Chinese citizens trying to communicate freely on the internet with the outside world without the government watchdogs interfering.
Free Speech much?
Usama Bin Goldstein
January 1st, 2009 at 5:59 am
More on the Israeli attack on Gaza and the role of the vaunted American Free Press.
The great irony in all this is that the Israeli media has actually been more honest about the nature of this (America-backed) Gaza assault than the media in the self-proclaimed Land of the Free itself:
“Here is a simple, stone cold fact. You cannot read or hear the truth about what is happening in Gaza from any corporate media in the United States. The only thing you will find there are regurgitations of Israeli spin, which are themselves only regurgitations of the kind of spin that American militarists have put on their own depredations — for centuries now. Up and down the American media and political establishments, you will find nothing but bleatings about Israel being “forced” to launch its vicious blunderbuss attacks against heavily populated Gaza because of the “recent spate of Hamas bombings” since the end of a six-month ceasefire.
This is of course a damnable and deliberate lie. Papers in Israel — in Israel, but not the United States — are reporting the truth: the murderous assault on Gaza was planned not only before the six-month ceasefire ended — it was planned before the cease-fire even took effect. Indeed, the cease-fire was part of the military plan to decimate the civilian areas of Gaza; it was a hoax, a scam, a deliberate feint to buy time for military preparations — precisely the same strategy followed by the Bush Regime (and its bipartisan Establishment supporters) in “going to the UN” to seek a “peaceful solution” to the “Iraqi crisis” — when the invasion was already in the works.”
Shock, Awe and Lies: The Truth Behind the Israeli Attack on Gaza
http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/185280
abraham
January 1st, 2009 at 6:17 am
They use it whenever a pro-Palestinian article appears. Seriously.
Dsmith
January 1st, 2009 at 6:17 am
At one time I was able to respond to articles posted on HuffPo. I would point out the bias to many of the articles that carefully ignored war crimes committed by Israel…bombing hospitals, killing children and then calling them Hamas terrrorist…the list goes on, but one day I received an e-mail telling me I could no longer respond to any post on HuffPo.
I still read HuffPo, only to offset, the Israel Can Do No Wrong…Drudge Report, but such a disclaimer is not out of character for them.
My favorite site is Anti-War.com and Informed Comment (Professor Juan Cole). These two sites give you an accurate picture concerning the domination Israel has over our foreign policy.
Ray Gordon
January 1st, 2009 at 6:20 am
When Ms. Huffington spoke at Goucher College in Baltimore several months ago, she talked about the need to speak out against the powerful and dangerous lobbies in Washington. I asked her if this included the Israel lobby since it was one of the most powerful and dangerous. She started dancing immediately,saying that the Israel lobby had every right to promote Israel’s interests and it was no different than the Detroit lobby. She is a phony who doesn’t want to injure her career by criticizing Israel or going up against the Israel lobby.The U.S. media and government are all alone in not condemning Israel’s mass murder and genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
just me
January 1st, 2009 at 6:53 am
Remember Amazon’s unprecedented editorial qualifier to Jimmy Carter’s book? Or the patent negative editorial reviews of “The Israel Lobby”? Or the unprecedented denying of the speaker’s podium to Jimmy Cater? To those of us who know these are raw, naked displays of “Zionist” power – (lets be Phillip Weiss-real here – the Jewish elite) . To those of you, Weiss included, who think people are ‘waking up’ I wish I could agree. “the Lobby” is more powerful than ever and is now simply adjusting and expanding into new media. For example, the ADL is now policing youtube.
When confronted with it, people won’t ‘wake up’ they will cower. Especially now when home and credit lines are now effectively controlled by the government. On an at least subconscious level, people understand that publicly opposing Israel will mean an audit from the IRS and a reduced credit score.
But there is still a long way to go. I have had at least a half dozen emails from what i can only describe as far left liberals telling me that Hamas provoked this and israel is showing restraint!
justme
January 1st, 2009 at 6:53 am
Remember Amazon’s unprecedented editorial qualifier to Jimmy Carter’s book? Or the patent negative editorial reviews of “The Israel Lobby”? Or the unprecedented denying of the speaker’s podium to Jimmy Cater? To those of us who know these are raw, naked displays of “Zionist” power – (lets be Phillip Weiss-real here – the Jewish elite) . To those of you, Weiss included, who think people are ‘waking up’ I wish I could agree. “the Lobby” is more powerful than ever and is now simply adjusting and expanding into new media. For example, the ADL is now policing youtube.
When confronted with it, people won’t ‘wake up’ they will cower. Especially now when home and credit lines are now effectively controlled by the government. On an at least subconscious level, people understand that publicly opposing Israel will mean an audit from the IRS and a reduced credit score.
But there is still a long way to go. I have had at least a half dozen emails from what i can only describe as far left liberals telling me that Hamas provoked this and israel is showing restraint!
Carol Watson
January 1st, 2009 at 7:34 am
We probably won’t have long to wait to see if they use the same disclaimer on their next guest post. Anybody want to take bets you will not see another one unless the writer is giving the Palestinian side of the story.
How I miss Edward Said. But at the same time, perhaps it is good that he didn’t live to see just how much worse it has become.
George in Toronto
January 1st, 2009 at 7:35 am
Huff & Puff banned me years ago because I was on the Arab side. I read the other day Huf puf received $26 million from the Democratic party. The problem is with any group –they whore themselves for money. U.S. tax dollars($billions) head to Israel and 80% head back USA to bribe politicians. AIPAc and a host of Jewish orgs are funded by Israel. Most Americans don’t realize that most politicians after 1 1/2 terms become multi-millionair$.Take Obamaa–never had a long meaningful full employment before being a Politician–he is now a multi $millionair.
Would you expect any American in politics to cut the hand that feeds them?
Ending Note: All Devil’s children are good at one thing–Bribing and blackmailing.
If your a small group and want to control the masses–just buy out all the major media–Notice how easy it is to become kingmakers and still be filthy rich while they are at it?
Israel is the largest USA military base on the planet–Americans are just too stupid to know it.USA wants a bigger expanded base–now you know the real reason Palestinians are slaughtered like dogs :^(
david monaghan
January 1st, 2009 at 7:58 am
Mr Kelso, I believe you have a coloured visions of how the world works. Conflicts all over the world since adam was a lad have kicked out people from their ancestral home, then to equate it with percentages with how many would die in America is stretching the truth.
I have a Palestinians man who works for me, who got asylum status some time ago, he his a christian and has a doctorate in medicine but unable to work in this country as a doctor.
His own country has made it impossible to work their too. Both sides in the conflict are fighting in their eyes to survive. Diplomacy, fighting and the world disgusts has not yet solved the problem—so what’s the answer may be time and enought blood shed that both side get fed up and a religious understanding of what life is realy about will win
goldhorder
January 1st, 2009 at 8:32 am
ohhh…the Israelis cheering from New Jersey as the world trade center burned told us that.
goldhorder
January 1st, 2009 at 8:35 am
This has always been the case since I started realizing I was receiving nothing but pravda style propaganda from the US government. You can read the Israel press…Jerusalem Post and Harettz and at least get the other side of the story and bit of honest discussion. The US is truly “Isaraeli Occupied” territory.
sylvan
January 1st, 2009 at 9:11 am
Craven, spineless, or complicit. Unfortunately, those terms have come to describe Democrats these past few years (and liberal media outlets), although they have always been the more pro-Zionist party. Now, there is no difference between the two parties — both get oodles of cash from the same people, and see in the Israeli cause a way to boost their shared imperialism with fiercely partisan and vocal group of intellectual heavyweights. It’s a stunning reversal of fate.
sylvan
January 1st, 2009 at 9:19 am
The constellation of pro-Israeli forces, including a relentlessly obnoxious troll army that is in fact part of Israeli state propaganda policy, makes sure to keep anyone who dares be critical of Israel on the back foot, whether on the right or the left. The know full well the media terrain and all the dirty tricks, including throwing in the occasional anti-semitic sock puppet to discredit any discussion of Israeli policy and to especially distance anti-Zionist Jews from such discussions.
What is clear to everyone though is the overwhelming phantom power of this lobby that has captured the entire US congress with only handful of exceptions (also Canada and many European countries). Never has such a domination by a foreign power been so complete.
Usama Bin Goldstein
January 1st, 2009 at 9:43 am
Yeah. And the rest of the world is American-occupied territory with over 700 US military bases implanted in over 100 “sovereign” nations.
As they say, the true Axis of Evil is the USA-UK-Israel. These nations are essentially 3 heads of the same Beast.
jack
January 1st, 2009 at 9:54 am
I hate to say it, but Human Events has more honest discussion than the Huffington Post and that is a noecon site. Arriana is the buggest phony on the face of the earth.
pam
January 1st, 2009 at 10:55 am
Mustapha Barghouti is an amazingly intelligent and analytical person. He is totally unracist. He would make a great president if they could move forward to a one state solution
Jeff Davis
January 1st, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Sadly, the Jews have a comprehensive five-thousand year record of screwing up. They go someplace, settle in, do real well for themselves and everyone else. And then something happens, and they’re out of town, on the run, just steps ahead of the lynch mob,…if they’re lucky. First it was the Egyptians, then the Romans, then, during the dark ages, the Roman Catholic church. Then all of Europe. Then Spain and Portugal during the inquisition. Then most recently, the Nazis wipe out ninety percent of Europe’s Jews.
See a pattern here? But no one seems to care to ask why. Because the minute someone does, the screams of “Anti-Semitism” drown out any thoughtful inquiry. The corrective effect of criticism is squelched, and the pattern repeats, yet again.
See Mark Twain’s “Concerning the Jews” for the reason behind the jews’ five-thousand year program of attempted self-destruction.
Now, today, they’re at it again. Feverishly working to bring about the next holocaust. The Americans, including the American Jewish community, are the only people on the planet unaware of the truth about Zionism and Israel. This is because, when the Brits bailed on the Zionist program in 1939, the Zionists, needing the protection and support of a great power, turned to the US, and focused their propaganda efforts on the US population, especially the US Jewish community.
For the facts –the myths vs the reality — Google up the “Hidden History of Zionism”, by Ralph Schoenmann.
Regarding the US Govt, the Zionists employed a coordinated and focused lobbying effort — it would not be the least unreasonable to use the term “subversion” — on the US govt. The Israeli success in this regard has been total. In the words of Ariel Sharon, “We own the United States”.
Now, the protective propaganda cloak is shredding. The Americans are finding out they’ve been had; that congress is utterly craven, obsequious, and prostrate to Israeli interests. Four thousand US soldiers dead courtesy of the neo-conservative (essentially right-wing Israeli agents) plan to use the US military to make the mid-east safe for Israel; the looting of the US treasury in pursuit of this goal. Year after year billions in “aid” to Israel for weapons and for settlements universally recognized as illegal (but who gives a shit about that?) Not to mention whatever role the Jewish segment of the banking and investment community had in the housing meltdown and the associated economic crash.
“Anti-semitism!!!!” they will scream regarding these my comments. But that won’t stop the American lynch mob, headed up by the Christian evangelicals (who pine for the destruction of Israel as the prelude to “the rapture”), when they come calling.
And perhaps the greatest irony of all: the US is in fact the long-dreamed-of “promised land” of freedom, tolerance, and prosperity for the Jews, and Israel is a geo-political crime in progress, the poison which will destroy itself and severely impact the sweet success the American Jewish community has built (for all Americans) and enjoyed over the last four-hundred years.
I’m an American and a Jew, and it just kills me. The Jews, so smart in so many areas, yet in this, so profoundly stupid, stubbornly dedicated to a five-thousand year program of attempted suicide.
Go figure.
tquigly
January 1st, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Liberal/Democrat websites are loyal in their lock-step.
Atrocities they slammed boosh for (with good reason), obama is continuing – without criticism from them.
If you don’t like websites because of their obvious bias, boycott them – simple.
One of the most important political sites on the web is whatreallyhappened.com (where this article was linked).
ImgodIruleYOUsuck
January 1st, 2009 at 5:27 pm
I got sick of debating with pro-Palestinians years ago. These people and their viruses Post and Run. They never stick around to acknowledge other views. The best I can tell is they don’t like losing arguments and know their position is inferior, thus they hide behind “Don’t argue with the Jew and their devil breed, they are clever and will warp you mind”. What a cute little religious mind-screw(because the proper “F” word is oppressed). They cant win so they claim some evil overlord power warps reasonable logic and fact, that is your first clue of the caliber of people you are dealing with.
1984
January 1st, 2009 at 5:40 pm
My experience is the same. I’ve had at least 100 posts deleted because they were not OK with the censorship at huffpo. I’ve also been banned at least twice, but sent them a complaint letter and later was allowed to post again.
Huffpo used to be better…
1984
January 1st, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Read also http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
For news around the world I also go to: http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/ (just ignore all the conspiracies…this website has an very good selection of news from around the world)
Will
January 1st, 2009 at 6:31 pm
disclaimer = covering your arse with the US goverment
golara hamzeh
January 1st, 2009 at 6:35 pm
here is the phone number. It took me many hours of search to find this number. I’m sure the number will soon be changed after, hopefully, hundreds of calls about this and other israeli ass kissings by the Huffington Post. Call. Be polite. There is a shift taking place in the american media and the publication of pieces like this is a sign. Huffington Post could have easily NOT publish the Barghouti piece. The act is courageous and rather than attacking them, one must defend them and encourage them to not run disclaimers like this in the future. The disclaimer on top of this article ONLY shows the genocidal zeal of the Israeli Lobby in USA. In a way it is more negative to the Israeli cause to run stuff like this. I noticed this immediately the same day the article was published, and started looking around for the number. Appreciate their effort to publish the piece and tell them you understand the kinds of pressure they are under to put disclaimers like this on top of the blog, and the kind of pressure they will get into after the disclaimer at the hands of Israeli Lobby. Make sure they understand that they are not the problem, but Israel and its irrational friends in USA that are the cause of the problem.
one-two one two-two four five-seven eight four four.
good luck
1984
January 1st, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Looks also @ informationclearinghouse and whatdoesitmean for a good collection of links.
e
January 1st, 2009 at 7:36 pm
David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
espresso
January 1st, 2009 at 8:46 pm
I agree. I’ve had it with Huffington Post. They censor all the comments – only allowing the Zionists to post freely – while censoring all those who advocate for Palestinians or criticize Israel or zionism.
They give Alan Dershowitz a platform to spew all his dishonest ideological crap, but they won’t let anyone post a comment disagreeing with him.
Shame on Huffington Post! I wish all the posters (I’ve been posting there for years) would just boycott them until they purge all the Zionists from the moderator spots and allow equal time and equal voice on the middle east.
espresso
January 1st, 2009 at 8:58 pm
I agree. I’ve had so many comments censored on Huffington Post. The moderator spots have obviously been filled with zionist zealots who will censor the most conscientious posts that criticize Israel policies.
Hell, they let Alan Dershowitz, that hate-monger Zionist zealot post, and then they censor just about every comment except the four or five that compliment him. I’ve probably posted thirty times on Alan’s threads and have maybe gotten a single comment to appear.
That site has become pathetic in its tilt towards Israel, and I wish everyone would just boycott it.
When this Gaza tragedy happened I watched the site delete nearly a thousand comments at once. The “not approved post” queue was up to 800 at one point. If you write “Israel” or “zionist” in your post your post disappears to the queue.
Others and I started to use I instead of Israel and Z instead of zionist and our comments actually appeared.
Andy
January 1st, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Why indeed?
medicis
January 1st, 2009 at 9:16 pm
frankly,
I found your article to be succinct, to the point, and strangely, considering the quality of many posts, compelling in it insight and subtle argumentation. I have, of course, considered these issues, but I thought you said it particularly well.
thanks.
swan
January 1st, 2009 at 10:10 pm
CNN has been particularly nauseating in the far-fetched manner in which they are presenting the conflict. Then Sanchez acts all high and mighty and complains about the number of people who are writing him hateful comments about Israel, and about Palestine, and goes on to say, but then they are bloggers, and you know how loggers are.
Huffington is so lame. The letter Nader wrote Bush about Gaza is remarkable. You can find it at commondreams.
swan
January 1st, 2009 at 10:14 pm
For real, sylvan. The Israel First crowd is so well organized and funded. They have been planning their domination for a long time.
ummabdulla
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:23 am
It’s interesting to see how different CNN International coverage is from the CNN domestic network’s coverage. Not that CNNI is great either, but it’s different and certainly more objective. One version of the story for the U.S., and another story for the rest of the world.
richard vajs
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:30 am
jeff davis,
You make the point, “the US is in fact the long-dreamed of ‘promised land’ of freedom, tolerance, and prosperity for the Jews, and Israel is a geo-political crime in progress”. Exactly so. This is the main reason that Israel (as a solely Jewish entity emptied of Palestinians) is a concept that will perish – the Jews don’t need an Israel as much as the Palestinians need a Palestine.
Jews have flourished in America, e.g. in education (the Ivy League schools enrollment is about 30% Jewish), in income (34% of Jewish families report at least $100,000 in yearly income), or housing (where are the ghettos? – Boca Raton, Beverly Hills?). Why should Jews go to some hostile desert to steal the native’s land and get rocks and rockets (and someday nukes) thrown at them, when places like America exist?
True, some Jews may see Israel as a historical imperative, but; I think for most, Israel is a very bad time-share investment home in a very declining neighborhood.
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:11 am
I made two comments on this thread yesterday and they still haven’t appeared. I hope AntiWar isn’t picking up on Huffington Post’s wicked ways…
I didn’t say anything that was inappropriate.
Damned! The blogs are slowly going the way of the main stream media. Before long, only the Alan Dershowitz and his handful of fans will be able to comment on anything middle east related.
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:28 am
Israel believes its has won broad international support in the media for its actions in Gaza thanks to its PR strategy, which through a new body has for months been concerned with formulating plans and role-playing to ensure that government officials deliver a clear, unified message to the world’s press.
The body, known as the National Information Directorate, was set up eight months ago following recommendations from an Israeli inquiry into the 2006 Lebanon war. Its role is to deal with hasbara – meaning, in Hebrew, “explanation”, and referring variously to information, spin, and propaganda.
[...]
The hasbara directive also liaises over core messages with bodies such as friendship leagues, Jewish communities, bloggers and backers using online networks. Last week the directorate started a YouTube channel showing Israeli bombings in the Gaza strip. “New media is a new war zone within the media – we are planning to be relevant there,” said Leibovich.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/02/israel-palestine-pr-spin
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:28 am
Daily Kos Community War Schizophrenia
I discuss here how the Democratic ‘liberal’ online organization, the Daily Kos, has weaseled its way out of even mentioning the slaughter in the Gaza Ghetto. After I wrote this piece, I revisited the pages I linked and noticed that people there were openly complaining about how they were all recommending these discussions for the ‘front page’ only it was being ignored totally.
Few of them figured out, they were being duped by the DNC team running Kos. Perhaps Kos started out as an outsider organization but it is now very much an insider operation. I also notice, unlike Antiwar.com, a site I often recommend to my readers, the entire population at Daily Kos is ‘anonymous’. Virtually not a soul uses their real names.
I want to salute Antiwar.com for using real names of real people who are willing to stand up and be counted. It takes real courage to do this. It is easy to say things, if one is nobody. But to use one’s name and thus, be easily found, this is something I respect, greatly.
Many years ago, I told the liberal community, ‘We cannot support fascism and ethnic cleansing in Israel and still call ourselves liberals.’ Indeed, I should hope that true conservatives can join me in saying, ‘The US Constitution is the bulwark against ethnic warfare,’ which would have been totally true if our Founding Fathers hadn’t endorsed and enabled slavery and the removal of the native Indians.
But the truth is, we must abhor and denounce all efforts at tribalist ethnic cleansing in all countries. People are CITIZENS of nations, their religious or ethnic backgrounds come secondary. The entire concept of ‘what is a nation’ is under fire thanks to Israeli Jews who tell us, there are no nations, there are only ethnic enclaves.
This ideology is going to rip our nation to shreds. Just as racism is horrible, this is even worse. And no empire can survive if it lets tribes run riot, ask the Romans. Heh. Just to go way back in history.
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:30 am
Nearly all websites today censor people. I am hoping the guys don’t censor me talking about this. It looks like they did censor my previous comment.
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 am
I am going to try it again: I have been online since the beginning of online access, ie, more than 15 years. Over this time, I notice, due to being censored or banned, that more and more sites are addicted to this process. Instead of being happy there is debates going on, all web sites, left, right and center, seem to want ECHO CHAMBERS. This is beyond stupid.
Censoring people who type in only insults or ‘la-la-la’ stuff is barely OK with me. But substantial commentary that is both civil and even sane: this is what is censored the most, not the least! There is tremendous fear in many closed communities that someone might change the collective hive’s mind. To prevent this, censors guard against agitators like myself. People who questions things using stuff like logic or historical references.
This is why it is so sad to see Antiwar.com complain about Huffington Post, a goofy organization that is rapidly, like Daily Kos, being taken over by Zionist operatives, censoring people even as the Antiwar blogger here seems to have some sort of censorship system going, too!
The test is, will this posting of mine show up? If so, I will congratulate the Antiwar people for being honest and not dishonest.
PS. click on my URL to see other comments about world events.
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:37 am
I tried posting something again and…..Yes, there is censorship going on here. I will be writing about this. Good grief, guys! What AILS you all here at Antiwar.com?
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:40 am
I just had another post censored here as well. It was a link to a news clip at the Guardian regarding Israel censorship efforts on the internet.
How can an article clipping from The Guardian regarding Israel efforts to spread propaganda be considered worthy of censorship?
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:47 am
It wouldn’t surprise me if AIPAC hasn’t sent out “warning alerts” to all its members telling the young ones to please apply for moderator volunteer spots at the most popular blogs. That’s the kind of ground roots organization they run.
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:52 am
Yes, espresso. What is particularly bizarre is, my comments about being censored are NOT being censored! None of this is being censored. But our comments about the topic are being censored.
I wonder who is running this blog, anyway? This is all so very bizarre. And trust me, I am writing about this.
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:53 am
I’ll try again … please don’t censor, AntiWar.
Special spin body gets media on message, says Israel
The Guardian (link is in my signature)
[...]
The body, known as the National Information Directorate, was set up eight months ago following recommendations from an Israeli inquiry into the 2006 Lebanon war. Its role is to deal with hasbara – meaning, in Hebrew, “explanation”, and referring variously to information, spin, and propaganda.
[...]
The hasbara directive also liaises over core messages with bodies such as friendship leagues, Jewish communities, bloggers and backers using online networks. Last week the directorate started a YouTube channel showing Israeli bombings in the Gaza strip. “New media is a new war zone within the media – we are planning to be relevant there,” said Leibovich.
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:54 am
Dear Antiwar.com: the two comments I posted had zero reason to be censored. They were on topic. There wasn’t any clippings from other publications, either. Here is the posting that didn’t make it, but was saved by myself:
I am going to try it again: I have been online since the beginning of online access, ie, more than 15 years. Over this time, I notice, due to being censored or banned, that more and more sites are addicted to this process. Instead of being happy there is debates going on, all web sites, left, right and center, seem to want ECHO CHAMBERS. This is beyond stupid.
Censoring people who type in only insults or ‘la-la-la’ stuff is barely OK with me. But substantial commentary that is both civil and even sane: this is what is censored the most, not the least! There is tremendous fear in many closed communities that someone might change the collective hive’s mind. To prevent this, censors guard against agitators like myself. People who questions things using stuff like logic or historical references.
This is why it is so sad to see Antiwar.com complain about Huffington Post, a goofy organization that is rapidly, like Daily Kos, being taken over by Zionist operatives, censoring people even as the Antiwar blogger here seems to have some sort of censorship system going, too!
The test is, will this posting of mine show up? If so, I will congratulate the Antiwar people for being honest and not dishonest.
PS. click on my URL to see other comments about world events.
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:54 am
Yes, it was censored! HAHAHA. Good grief, Antiwar.com! HAHAHA.
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:00 am
I’ll try again … please don’t censor. Here goes ……
Special spin body gets media on message, says Israel
The Guardian (link is in my signature)
[...]
The body, known as the National Information Directorate, was set up eight months ago following recommendations from an Israeli inquiry into the 2006 Lebanon war. Its role is to deal with hasbara – meaning, in Hebrew, “explanation”, and referring variously to information, spin, and propaganda.
[...]
The hasbara directive also liaises over core messages with bodies such as friendship leagues, Jewish communities, bloggers and backers using online networks. Last week the directorate started a YouTube channel showing Israeli bombings in the Gaza strip. “New media is a new war zone within the media – we are planning to be relevant there,” said Leibovich.
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:02 am
I’ve just posted that Guardian article several times, changing it a bit each time. And each time – CENSORED! Heh heh heh.
If anyone is interested you can read it in my signature.
Bob
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:04 am
Huffington is a hustler, plain and simple. Didn’t she toss her hat into the CA governor’s race? She is a self centered, self promoter, without a brain in her head. No wonder her husband left her for another man! But not before the little Greek girl tagged him for a pretty big chunk of change. Remember, he was from a Texas oil family with a lot of dough. She tried to get him into the senate, but he lost. She was all over the media, when Gingrich was Speaker, as a “conservative”, and after she split with her hubby, she switched sides. I laugh out loud when I see people on the so called news shows listing their affiliation with HuffPo as something to show their cred. These are the same people that think Obama will be different than Bush. Never forget, if voting mattered they’d outlaw it.
Lear K
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:28 am
“Given the pathologies of American politics and mainstream journalism I don’t feel it is possible for the Arab street to be given a fair voice”
Andy,
Add to that hollywood,and the Zoinist- Christians who are more Jewish than the Jews themselves.Just watch the 700-club.And where are Gorge Cloony,Mia Faro,and Angelina joulie ?!Too bad,the Palestnians were polar bears,or humb back wheals!
Elaine Meinel Supkis
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:53 am
I want to thank the Antiwar.com staff for finally publishing my postings.
Lie, Starve then Destroy: It’s the American way at karmalised
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 am
[...] So there will be no investigations or debates on conflicts of interest when an influential political pundit names a child after an underground terrorist who authored the Jordanian option, and a popular webzine, recently endowed with $25 million dollars, puts disclaimers on fact-filled articles written by Palestinians. [...]
Carol Watson
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:07 am
I see your Guardian article with the link posted at 7:28 several posts above.
There are such things as technical glitches or maybe you nested it where you didn’t intend and then didn’t look for it there. Antiwar.com is not in the habit of censoring anyone.
Mike Ewens
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Censored? Comments go to _moderation_ for review b/c they contain words that are typically associated with poor taste (I needn’t give you examples…trust me that there is some really tasteless stuff). We check the moderation list several times a day. Also, too many links look like spam.
This is the internet. Calm down.
mike
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:40 pm
so, being unable to work in his country makes his nation suitable for suffering crimes of war from the one which took his land in the first place?
poor little man working for you and having to talk bad of his own people to put food on his table…you’re pathetic…
mike
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
No, you’re ok…I also noticed it cause I get their newsletter in a regular basis…ok I used to…gonna cancel it…
espresso
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
I used to love Huffington Post – have been there for years. But I’m going to refrain from going there anymore. Out of principle.
They don’t deserve to count me as one of their four million unique daily hits (in setting their advertising rates) – not if they are going to censor me from advocating for human rights and against ethnic cleansing.
I wish more users over there would boycott them as well. I know for a fact that MANY MANY regulars over there are as furious about the censorship and pro-zionist agenda, as I am.
lear K
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:54 pm
“Bush: Hamas attacks on Israel an `act of terror’”?!
Which country that was concieved in ,born out,and was christened in terror?
Corkey
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Arianna reminds me of a intellectually dishonest version of Zsa Zsa Gabor.
Jerry G.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:27 pm
I have been seeing some similar problems at Huffington Post. Tried to Post this one today, but it was moved to Pending, then deleted:
“A shameful, steep, downward-spiraling path for Israel, the Jewish people and America.
While Israel’s militarists and America’s weaponry kills dozens of terrorists and hundreds of militants, we create thousands of terrorists and millions of militants.
Have we learned nothing?”
Lear K
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:33 am
Palestnians have no state no country.They have been forced out oft heir land,cleansed ,and ever terrorised since 1948.
Lear K
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:40 am
And in all incidents the viewers minds are set up to view the Plaestnians with pre-concived hostility.Notive the no-stop use of the code words militants,terrorists,extremists,militant Hamas,and Islamic.
Lear K
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:58 am
It is not just the media that is so baised against the Plaesnians ,even so called American justice system is used to serve Israeli agenda in Palestine by labeling any aid to them as aid to terrorist organization,as the recent case of the Holy Land Foundation,and many muslim chrities taht were shut down and their assets confiscated.
Americans, by and large, are so hoodwinked by the terrorism industry that has our government in a stranglehold that truth cannot emerge from its dicta. That is especially so when the truth that struggles to emerge concerns the Palestinian people. Americans believe there is a terrorist behind every bush in Israel. Americans believe that the Palestinian people terrorize the Israeli people (without, of course, pausing to ask themselves how a people who have been ethnically cleansed from all but about 10% of their land, who have no effective government or armed forces, who live in cities with 60% unemployment, whose farmland has been confiscated, and who are packed together in enclaves without sufficient water or electricity or gasoline or food can possibly be a threat to anyone). Americans are simply brainwashed to believe that what is not true is true. And the prosecution in the HLF case made sure that the jury abandoned all ability to think through twisted evidence to find the truth. I will be glad to sit with you and explain exactly how that is true, or you may wait until the appeals court throws the case out.”
http://theenemyshallnot.blogspot.com/
“
david monaghan
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Mike you mis-read my comments
He didn’t want to leave his country most of his family is their.
His father was a hard worker who did well for his family and was able to send them away to be educated as doctors.
He came back to work in the hospital in the hight of the troubles.
Hamas told his father not to pay any taxes or all his family would be killed.
This is in the western bank. The authorites took their money and left them without work or hope and he was told he was going to be arrested. Within that conflict no justice would be served and he had to get out. He as worked harder than you can imagine to support his family in the western bank.
There is a lot more to his story that I am not going to say, but he as lived with the war for a long time and I would suggest knows more about the good bad and ugly than the average outsider. This poor little man as you said is a Giant compared to your understanding of what life is realy about in his country
Sean
January 4th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Huffpo is a freaking joke. I see they didn’t bother to put a disclaimer on this steaming pile of racist Zionist horseshit:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/stop-this-vicious-slaught_b_155039.html
I attempted to refute the writer but two of my posts were censored, as they almost always are whenever I post anything critical of Israel. They did let one through, which is the comment on Israeli historian Baruch Kimmerling debunking the alleged Palestinian connection to the Nazis via the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem–a favorite Zionist nugget.
Interestingly, while I was posting I reloaded the page and noticed that a new, pro-Israel post was chosen as a “Huffpost’s Pick” within the space of 4 minutes after its posting, on a Sunday, even though it’s pure bullshit as anyone familiar with the facts knows. While I am sure many of Huffpo’s “voluntary moderators” are GIYUS types, do they now get to determine which posts get Huffpo’s version of an “editor’s choice” rating as well as which comments do and don’t get through?
Tim R.
January 4th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Can someone please explain a few things to me? And perhaps do it in a mature way, without insults or name calling? Here are some questions. They are “true/false” questions so I’d like you to first answer true or false and then you can explicate.
Israel is a tiny country the size of the State of New Jersey (about 16,000 sq miles)and is completly surrounded by dozens of much larger Arab Muslim nations that are hostile to her and some of whom do not even recognize her right to exist. True or False?
HAMAS does not recognize Israel’s right to exist and calls for her total destruction. True or False?
Israel completey pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and in the years following HAMAS has launched thousands of rocket attacks at Israel civilians. True or False?
Israeli civilians have been killed by said attacks. True or false?
Under principles of International Law any nation has the right of self-defense. True or False.
Israel is a nation of roughly 5 million Jews and is totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs Muslims. True or false?
At least some of the disputed land in question was actually purchased by wealthy Jews such as Sir Moses Maimonedes in the late 19th and early 20th century. True or False?
In Novemeber of 1947 the General Assembly of the United Nations voted for a two state partition plan. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it. True or False?
Up until 1967, the Gaza strip was “occupied” by a fellow Arab-Muslim nation, Egypt. Yet there were not rocket attacks or terrorist attacks on Egypt. True or False?
The conditions of Palestinians in Gaza were no better when they were under Egyption control. True or False?
On May 14th 1948, Israel was declared an independant nation. The next day, all the Arab nations attacked her. True or False?
Israel won that war and subsequent wars in 1956, 1967 and 1973. True or false?
In the course of human history, the winning party in a war generally gets to keep the land and spoils and gets to dictate terms of peace (examples include the numerous wars between white european settlers and the native american Indians, the American Revolution, the Mexican Amercian War, the Spanish American war, the Falkland Islands war, etc etc etc. True or false?
So I don’t get it. Israel is always the bad guy, right? But it seems to me that facts tend to tell a different story. I know, I know, I am a zionist and I hate America and I am an Israel spy and I am a racist and I hate all Palestinians. Save the insults and give me something constructive if you care to respond.
Sean
January 5th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Israel is a tiny country the size of the State of New Jersey (about 16,000 sq miles)and is completely surrounded by dozens of much larger Arab Muslim nations that are hostile to her and some of whom do not even recognize her right to exist. True or False?
FALSE. Israel is not surrounded by hostile Arab enemies. The majority of Arab states have normalized relations with Israel, and those that haven’t, such as Syria, have repeatedly said they will do so on return of some or all of the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 war.
HAMAS does not recognize Israel’s right to exist and calls for her total destruction. True or False?
False. Hamas has repeatedly stated they will accept the existence of Israel in exchange for recognition of a Palestinian state. It is Israel that continues to refuse the right of the Palestinians to their own state.
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3886&l=1
Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005 and in the years following HAMAS has launched thousands of rocket attacks at Israel civilians. True or False?
False. Israel never ended its occupation, but continued to impose an illegal blockade collectively punishing the Palestinians and put this blockade into effect before Hamas was even elected in Gaza. Hamas observed a unilateral ceasefire at the start of the blockade during which time Israel continued to attack and kill Palestinian civilians in the West Bank and Gaza in an effort to promote a response form Hamas. Hamas ended its ceasefire when an Israeli gunboat massacred a Palestinian family picnicking on a beach. A second, bilateral ceasefire went into effect 6 months ago, but as evidence has shown, it was Israel that first violated this ceasefire not only by tightening its illegal siege on Gaza rather than opening border crossings as agreed but also with an armed incursion with tanks and warplanes which killed 6 Palestinians. In addition, Israel planned the current assault even before the ceasefire went into effect, and began its diplomatic and PR campaign to persuade and influence the media and government officials months before Hamas retaliated against Israel’s armed incursion, indicating the Israelis planned to violate this ceasefire all along and were simply using it to buy time to gather support for their attack.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-ceasefire-at+risk-20081105
Israeli civilians have been killed by said attacks. True or false?
True. A total of 20 Israeli civilians have been killed in Hamas’ retaliatory strikes since the siege on Gaza began. In that same period, Israel has killed over 1700 Palestinians as well as systematically starved, humiliated and brutalized the entire populace of Gaza.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/israel-gaza-hamas-hidden-agenda
Under principles of International Law any nation has the right of self-defense. True or False.
True. But Israel is maintaining an illegal occupation of the West Bank and illegal siege of Gaza. International law does not recognize military acts carried out by an aggressor in support of an illegal occupation or siege to be “self-defense.” It does however recognize the right of a people under an illegal occupation to form an armed resistance against that occupation.
Israel is a nation of roughly 5 million Jews and is totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs Muslims. True or false?
False. Israel is “totally surrounded” by a handful or Arab countries, two of which are essentially allies of Israel. Israel is not “srurrounded” by Pakistan, or Morocco, or Tunisia.
At least some of the disputed land in question was actually purchased by wealthy Jews such as Sir Moses Maimonedes in the late 19th and early 20th century. True or False?
False. The only disputed land lies beyond the 1967 Green line, in the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and Shaaba farms in Lebanon.
In November of 1947 the General Assembly of the United Nations voted for a two state partition plan. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it. True or False?
False. Israel began its ethnic cleansing of Arabs from areas that were slated to be part of the Palestinians side of the partition before it’s declaration of independence or the 1948 war even began, indicating they had no intention of honoring the partition and Ben Gurion has been quoted as saying they did not.
http://www.cactus48.com/partition.html
Up until 1967, the Gaza strip was “occupied†by a fellow Arab-Muslim nation, Egypt. Yet there were not rocket attacks or terrorist attacks on Egypt. True or False?
Was Egypt ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and building apartheid “Egyptian-only” settlements in their place? That might explain the lack of attacks.
The conditions of Palestinians in Gaza were no better when they were under Egyption control. True or False?
They were far better, in that the Egyptians were not systematically starving the people of Gaza.
On May 14th 1948, Israel was declared an independant nation. The next day, all the Arab nations attacked her. True or False?
False. Israel began the ethnic cleansing of Arabs before its declaration of “independence”, and the Deir Yassim massacre also occurred before the war began.
Israel won that war and subsequent wars in 1956, 1967 and 1973. True or false?
True.
In the course of human history, the winning party in a war generally gets to keep the land and spoils and gets to dictate terms of peace (examples include the numerous wars between white european settlers and the native american Indians, the American Revolution, the Mexican Amercian War, the Spanish American war, the Falkland Islands war, etc etc etc. True or false?
True, but that was before the creation of the UN and international law, which emerged largely as the result of Nazi aggression in WWII. International law does not currently recognize the right to acquire territory through war, whether that war is offensive or defensive. It only recognizes the right to defend your own territory against an aggressor , not the right to acquire the aggressor’s territory. UN Resolution 242, which requires Israel to withdraw from the territories it conquered in the 1967 war, explicitly reaffirms that there is no right to territorial acquisition through war.
Ariel Wineman
January 6th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Sean:
5 minutes on Wikipedia and you would have saved yourself much embarrassment.
“Majority” means more than 1/2. As of today, Israel has diplomatic relations with 3 Arab countries: Egypt and Jordon and Mauritania and trade relations with Qatar. So generously applied that would hardly be a majority and Israel’s relations with Egypt and Jordan are far from “normalized” and they are certainly not allies. As far as Hamas saying anything about accepting the State of Israel (on any terms) let alone repeatedly? Wow. I couldn’t find any evidence or support for that one. Your own link suggests only vaguely that Hamas has “not ruled out” a “truce”. Everything else they do and say (repeatedly) indicates a genocidal hatred not only of Israel but of all Jews. I suggest you spend sometime watching Hamas TV (it is available in English). Hamas has never observed a true cease fire and the beach “massacre” was not likely caused by Israelis; the evidence shows that it was likely caused by unexploded ordinance quite probably left by Hamas on the beach and deftly turned into anti-Israel propaganda absorbed by those (like you Sean) whose credulity with regard to Israel’s enemies is perfectly balanced by your incredulity of Israel and its supporters (odd, since Israel is a Democratic country with a free press and an independent judiciary to balance the government, while Hamastan is, well, not). I’ve said enough, although I would like to add that the fighting at Deir Yassin took place during war time if not strictly speaking during the war of independence since the mandate was not over yet.
Sean
January 6th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
“Majority†means more than 1/2. As of today, Israel has diplomatic relations with 3 Arab countries: Egypt and Jordon and Mauritania and trade relations with Qatar. So generously applied that would hardly be a majority and Israel’s relations with Egypt and Jordan are far from “normalized†and they are certainly not allies.
My mistake. I meant the majority of neighboring states, meaning Egypt and Jordan. Under Israeli law, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia are considered enemy nations, so it is rather difficult to have fully normalized relations under such circumstances. As for being “allies” with Jordan and Egypt, both these countries have been so complicit with Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and siege of Gaza as to constitute allies. Israel’s siege would not be effective without the collaboration of Egypt.
As far as Hamas saying anything about accepting the State of Israel (on any terms) let alone repeatedly? Wow. I couldn’t find any evidence or support for that one. Your own link suggests only vaguely that Hamas has “not ruled out†a “truceâ€. Everything else they do and say (repeatedly) indicates a genocidal hatred not only of Israel but of all Jews.
Bullshit.
Here is what Hamas’s leader has to say on the matter:
“Nonetheless, we in Hamas, like most of the Palestinian factions, have accepted the idea of a state with the borders of June 4, 1967. (6) However, we have said that we will not recognise Israel. Why? Because the Palestinian people are convinced that this land on which Israel exists is their own land. So, while they accept a state with the borders of 1967, they do not want to give legitimacy to those who occupied their lands 60 or 70 years ago. So, the formula is simply this: if through politics we have accepted a state with the borders of 1967, why should we be forced to renounce our beliefs and feelings and recognise Israel?”
“If a Muslim comes to attack me and oppress me and take away my home and my rights, I will fight him, and the same applies to Christians and Jews. We do not resist Israelis because they are Jewish, we fight them because they are occupiers.”
So Hamas is willing to recognize the existence of an Israeli state within the 1967 borders without recognizing the “right” of that state to claim the territory of the Palestinains. Their antagonism to Israel is not based on the fact that the Israelis are Jews, but they are in occupation of lands the Palestinians rightly view as their own.
To understand why recognition of Israel’s “right to exist” as a Jewish majority state, as mandated under Israeli law, Lawrence of Cyberia has an excellent analysis of what that phrase means to the Palestinians:
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2007/03/eggs_fail_to_re.html
“Israel’s right to exist” is code for a very specific demand. It isn’t asking the Palestinians to recognize that the state of Israel exists and has the right to security within mutually agreed borders (which is essentially what the PLO has accepted). And it doesn’t mean that the Palestinians must recognize an Israeli state where Jewish and non-Jewish citizens alike enjoy full rights of citizenship (as proposed in the partition resolution of 1947, in which “Jewish Palestine” was essentially a binational state). When Israel and its supporters demand that Palestinians must “recognize Israel’s right to exist” they specifically mean that Palestinians must acknowledge Israel’s “right” to exist as a Jewish state on the lands of former Mandate Palestine.”
“While every nation’s tragedies are unique, the fact is that the Palestinians are not the only people who have had their modern national consciousness shaped by catastrophe. African-Americans have been shaped by slavery, Jewish Israelis by the Holocaust, and present-day South Africans by apartheid. But Palestinians are the only people that are told they must recognize the “rightness” of the catastrophe that befell them. And we demand this because, in the U.S., Zionism is the prism through which we look at the Arab-Israeli conflict. For us, Zionism is worthy and normative, and it is very difficult for us to acknowledge that for the people who have been – and inevitably had to be – on the receiving end of it, Zionism is cruel, and violent, and racist. But try to imagine what you would think if you heard someone demand that – in the interests of reconciliation with their former oppressors – African-Americans must acknowledge not only that the slave trade existed, but that it had a “right” to exist. Or that black south Africans must recognize the “right” of apartheid to exist. Or Jews, the Holocaust. Just by describing the scenario, we can see that we would be demanding something grotesque. But we take it for granted that the Palestinians must do it; and condemn them for anti-semitism when they refuse.”
Hamas has never observed a true cease fire
Bullshit. Hamas observed a unilateral ceasfire for two years in the face of extreme Israeli attempts to provoke them into a response including assasination of their leaders and multiple attacks against civilians, culminating in the beach massacre. It is only then that they resumed their rocket attacks.
and the beach “massacre†was not likely caused by Israelis; the evidence shows that it was likely caused by unexploded ordinance quite probably left by Hamas on the beach and deftly turned into anti-Israel propaganda absorbed by those (like you Sean) whose credulity with regard to Israel’s enemies is perfectly balanced by your incredulity of Israel and its supporters
The “evidence” shows that is was “not likely” caused by Israelis but “probably” due to unexploded ordinance (a whole barrage worth, as the area was pockmarked by shellholes identical to the one where the family was killed) left by Hamas. Doesn’t seem like your “evidence” is very strong but I’d love to see it for the laugh value. Apparently, not one but multiple unexploded shells scattered over a wide area simultaneously detonated themselves just as a family came by.
This is how israel describes what happened:
“The military now says that it fired six shells on to and around the beach where Huda Ghalia’s family died, with one of them falling about 100 yards away, but by coincidence a mine planted by Hamas exploded in the same area at the same time. The military backs its claim with analysis of aerial photographs, shrapnel and what it is says is intelligence that Hamas has mined Gaza beaches to stop Israeli forces landing, although it is not known to have used such a tactic before.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/13/israel3
Kind of like how the weapons allegedly carried by a group of alleged militants allegedly exploded destroying a Palestinian home and the family inside just as an Israeli tank shell hit them, with the shell doing no damage other than igniting the explosives. Tank rounds are otherwise perfectly safe for use around people’s homes, and it’s ok to fire an artillery barrage within 100 yards of a family picnic so long as you take pains not to detonate any Hamas mines that might be lying about the area and which have a tendency to explode at the worst possible times.
It is laughable, comic opera apologies like these that shape my credulity towards Israel and its supporters. My credulity with regards to Israel and its supporters is also shaped by my experience of the extreme racism and viciousness expressed by those same supporters towards the Palestinians and anyone who disagrees with Israel’s propaganda (aka, “anti-Semites”), the fact that Israeli’s propaganda is so often debunked by reliable reports from human rights organziations, the UN and from Israeli and Jewish sources who are not likely to be motivated by “anti-Semitism,” and through hard evidence in the form of videos, photos, documents and eyewtiness reports from Israeli participants and obervers of israeli war crimes. It is shaped by the tendency of Israel and its supports to use the most, facile, inane, and fatuous arguments to justify Israel’s human rights abuses and to consider no lie, however low or obvious, to be beneath them in trying to advance Israel’s agitprop agenda.
I know this is hard for Israel and it supporters to understand, but when you blatantly lie about and smear your critics by labeling them anti-Semites who want to kill all the Jews, they are not likely to believe anything you have to say after that. Neither is anyone else with half a brain.
After a while, a thinking person is left with little choice but to regard anything from Israel and it supporters as pure bullshit at face value until a high standard of proof is offered to the contrary. It rarely is.
(odd, since Israel is a Democratic country with a free press and an independent judiciary to balance the government, while Hamastan is, well, not). I’ve said enough, although I would like to add that the fighting at Deir Yassin took place during war time if not strictly speaking during the war of independence since the mandate was not over yet.”
A democracy is a form of government for all its citizens, not just some. Israel is by law a Jewish majority state with an artificially gerrymandered (through ethnic cleansing) Jewish majority that nullifies any vote the minority Palestinians might exercise. Israeli citizenship is available for any Jew anywhere, but denied to Palestinians who lived on the land for thousands of years but were driven out by force. That is not democracy, but apartheid.
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If it gives you any solace, the Huffington post moderators block most of my posts even though I don't use foul language or call anyone names. They block my comments whenever they don't support the far left tone of the particular blog.
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the Huffington post puts filters on the words Israel or zionist. Vile racist posts by racist Israeli supporters is fully allowed but if you criticize Israel they will ban you
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I do not want a lot of comments about this. Larry, I am with you and I agree with you… If HuffPo actions like that, sorry to say…that he was not more than a coward.
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I’ve been working with a group that is fed up with the ridiculous censorship at the Huffington Post. We have a petition you can sign. Every time someone signs the form letter at the bottom of the page gets automatically sent to the Huffington Post (you will receive a form letter email reply). You can customize that email if you want. The petition is here:
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