As you may or may not have already heard, the United States Senate has passed a non-binding resolution condemning Moveon.org over a September 10th advertisement in the New York Times. This is fresh off Rep. Thomas Davis III’s call for an “investigation” into whether the discounted rate the Times gave them violates election laws (which apparently were expanded enough to cover criticism of an unelected General in a non-election year). We could ask what sort of chilling effect this will have on freedom of speech, but frankly I think the days where anyone takes Congress seriously are long over.
Plus, I have to admit I’m a little jealous. Antiwar.com has been around longer than Moveon.org, and has certainly been criticizing wars longer than they have. Where’s our non-binding resolution? After all, what are our tax dollars going for if not to pay Senators to complain to us about our lack of patriotism?
what's next? October to be declared Ward Churchill is unamerican month?
dems would vote for it
If Ward Churchill agrees to renounce his citizenship I will buy him a one way ticket to Cuba, N.Korea, Saudi Arabia, or Iran. Somehow though I think he is more comfortable here, biting the hand that feeds him.
Don’t bother deporting him to a third world dictatorship, this country will be one soon enough. Go team neo-con!
He should stay here so he can be killed with non-lethal tasers for criticizing our non-Imperial Senate.
That’s right, because criticizing one’s country for allegedly acting in bad faith = wanting to live in a communist/religious dictatorship. Enough with the “Move to Russia!” s**t, it never made any sense.
I would imagine Bush will love these types of bills, but unfortunately he criticized the Congress because they want to approve a bill which will add 35 billion to cover child health care costs as being against the the American people because they know he will veto it, meanwhile condemning this as possible advancement to government health care. He said he thinks the American people would rather talk it over with their doctors to see whats best for them. Ironically yesterday at my job I was called into a meeting where my company told us they will no longer be able to offer anymore health insurance for the family, but that we could get the insurance for $264/month per person. Does he mean I should talk it over with my kids doctors about what child I should insure and which one I might be able to get away with leaving uninsured? Then he had the gall to say that he was keeping government expenditure (has he seen the Defense Budget?) down and how he was getting an “A” in cutting taxes. Well hes getting an “F-” in the indirect taxes class…with the spiraling debt, the raising inflation, the worthless dollar, and now with companies cutting corners on benefits.
I am not a huge supporter of Moveon.org…but this bill is the most worthless thing and I cant believe Congress is wasting their time on it.
Whether you agree with the war or not, anyone who voluntarily serves his country in the armed forces deserves respect. This is especially true for a highly decorated 4 star general. Legally, to assert that someone is a liar and has betrayed his country is defamation of character unless it can be proven to be true.
He is a liar and it’s easy to prove. They fudged the numbers in his vaunted report to make it look like things are going well when they are not. At what point to do stop being a good German and be one who asks the real questions?
A bullet in the back of the head – sectarian. Bullet between the eyes is not. Yeah, let’s believe this government and what they have to say when they have lied, distorted and been just flat out wrong on everything they have said and done. Aiding and abetting them all the way has been members of your sacrosanct military.
When a spade is a spade you call it as such.
So all the SS troops who killed for the Nazis were just plain old good guys in your version of the truth then?
Seriously, I’ve had it with this whole nonsense of moral rubberstamping for state thralls. Yes, there can be times when participation in the military is a moral thing. But most times it is not, and when your country has just invaded another, which posed no danger to it, I think the matter is pretty clear. This is not service to “country”, but service to empire. If your “country” is the same as “empire” then you’re on the wrong side of things. If you kill for tyrants, then you’re morally no better than a tyrant.
Scott
Many other generals passed on the possibility of serving Bush on his cosmetic and lying needs, to avoid doing precisely what this guy is doing now. Those generals deserve my respect, not this lapdog doing his master’s job.
Yes Tim, “highly decorated,†but with what kind of medals? If you had taken the time to investigate, and taken a look at one of Petraeus’ biographies, you would have found out that General Patraeus had NEVER seen combat before his 2003 deployment to Iraq (And then, it was as generals do, from the safety of the green zone, in Baghdad). So, all his impressive “pots and pans†adorning his chest was won BEHIND a desk, doing what Admiral Williams Fallon, the new CENTCOM head, said he was doing. Admiral W. Fallon, told Patraeus (in March) to his face, that he, Fallon, considered him “an ass-kissing little chickensh*tâ€.
That’s right! A non-binding (or even a binding) resolution of condemnation from the liars, thieves and other assorted criminals in the Imperial Senate is a badge of honor to be worn with pride!
If one believes that the United States Senate is filled with “liars,thieves, and other assorted criminals” and calls it the “Imperial Senate” why does he or she live in this country?
where have u been? asleep!!! through all of this? Sometimes it just makes you wanna go ballistic. Get in line and stay at the buffet!
Because the government isn’t the f***ing country?
Did you want a different reason?
Or should I wait until Hillary Clinton is President of the federal government in a few months and remind you of that?
One is reminded of the period in the 1950s when Republican Senator Claire Booth Luce was being handily excoriated by many on the other side of the aisle, personal attacks to which her colleagues took umbrage. In a gesture of comity, Democrat Senator Humphrey rose to his feet at one point saying without thinking, “I think we have now beaten this bag of bones long enough”.
That is not to say that one should bring an end to this moveon.org characterization of Petraeus as “Betrayus”. Hardly. Any general as interested as Petraeus has been in framing his professional opinions to suit the political purposes of the Regime, and that in the teeth of plain fact, has indeed betrayed not only us but himself. And have the bacteria that populate the United States Senate – the gas-bags now harrumphing so loudly – betrayed us any less? Moveon.org, having finally and unexpectedly stumbled upon something of importance in its journey of self-discovery, should now continue on to denounce the entire system as a betrayal and not simply one arm of it. Are we now so to hope, or have we beaten ths bag of bones long enough?
John Lowell
Funny how “Betray Us” as some of you call him is the one over there in the midst of war while most of you sit in your air conditioning smoking pot and bitching about things. Grow the f**k up people and move to France if you don’t like it here. You might really like it there. Did you know in France it is illegal to form a religious group on a college campus. What progress they have made. I’m sure most of you would really like that.
What are you talking about? First what does France has to do with Patraeus? (By the way, you should like France, now that President Sarkozy and FM Bernard Kouchner are outgunning Bush on Iran). Second, most universities in France do not have campuses like in the US. However, they do have different student associations of different denominations. Obviously, you have never been to France, much less studied in a French university.
By the way, a little bit of trivia. Do you know who feeds the US Marines Corp in Iraq, and around the world for that matter? Sodexho, the largest food and facilities management company in the world and in North America. FYI, Sodexho is a French company, so France cannot be that bad…:~)
http://www.sodexhousa.com/military.asp
If it had been up to “most of you”, as you call us, no one would ever have been “over there in the midst of a war” in the first place, Betrayus included. And as to the rest of your remarks, they are notable only for their utter irrelevance.
For all of your apparent aspirations to identify yourself with what you seem to view as bravery, sir, you might do well to set an example personally by posting using your full name instead of anonymously. Is anonymity the hallmark of your kind of courage? I’d guess so.
John Lowell
Funny how you condemn Osama bin Laden who is over there in a cave coordinating terrorist attacks and what do you do? Sit there and complain as you watch tivoed sitcoms.
Hey wait, that doesn’t work, does it?
Ludicrous. No one automatically deserves respect. Rather, respect is earned based on one’s intent and actions.
I’m not going to give the obvious counterexample, as it would trigger Godwin’s law. So let’s look for another…do the Soviet soldiers who crushed the Hungarian revolution of 1956 deserve our respect? They were serving their country, right?
False.
(1) The general is a public figure, hence the legal bar for an actual finding of defamation is extremely high.
(2) Opinions like those expressed in the statement “X has betrayed our country” cannot form the basis of a claim of defamation. (Unlike, say, a claim like “X passed secret Y to enemy Z,” which is a factual claim.)
excellent last post from anon.
I know this much is true. General Betrayus will be judged for his role in prolonging this abomination in Iraq. This Judge will not be impressed with his four stars, nice shiney metals, or this shameful nonbinding resolution of the US Senate.
A highly decorated general? The little weasel is a career briefcase carrier and yes-man. Adm. Fallon put it well: that little chickens**t.
Earlier, Tim R. writes: “…This is especially true for a highly decorated 4 star general(General Petraeus).” Yes Tim, “highly decorated,” but with what kind of medals? If you had taken the time to investigate, and taken a look at one of Petraeus’ biographies, you would have found out that General Patraeus had NEVER seen combat before his 2003 deployment to Iraq (And then, it was as generals do, from the safety of the green zone, in Baghdad). So, all his impressive “pots and pans” adorning his chest was won BEHIND a desk, doing what Admiral Williams Fallon, the new CENTCOM head, said he was doing. Admiral W. Fallon, told Patraeus (in March) to his face, that he, Fallon, considered him “an ass-kissing little chickensh*tâ€.
Posts like these ruin the flavor of the Kool-aid.