In Depth Coverage of the “South Ossetia War”

Loose Wire blog writes:

Wikipedia is doing a good job of chronicling the war in South Ossetia; its mention of several apparent cyberattacks on both sides makes me wonder whether this is the first instance of a physical war being accompanied by a cyberwar? All those listed on Wikipedia are not parallel attacks, i.e. they are not part of an actual physical war

See more at War in South Ossetia (2008) – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

56 thoughts on “In Depth Coverage of the “South Ossetia War””

  1. What, exactly, is meant by the term “in depth”?

    Will the conflict be discussed in the context of Daniel 11:40?

    Of course not.

    Don’t be SILLY.

    Prophecies in Daniel have NOTHING to do with *reality*.

    And Wikipedia?????

    Wikipedia will not even allow a discussion of different perspectives on the Doctrine of “resurrection”

    How can they be trusted to provide an “in depth” coverage of the conflict in Georgia?

    Michael Cecil

    http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

  2. Brrr… If I hear “cyberwar” once more I will puke in a bucket. It just doesn’t exist except as a Chertoff-propeller and grant-hoover. That stuff connected to the obviously flawed “Internetwork” can be disrupted by anyone with a botnet at his command is well known. “Attacks” are on the same level as playing loud Britney Spears music through high-power gear aimed across the border.

    Anyway, expect McCain to leech onto the Georgian War any minute now with grunts directed at Moscow. A nice wedge issue.

    1. You are quite right, defacing or DDOS’ing a couple of websites should not be called an act of war in any sense – an act of teenage stupidity quite likely perpetrated by bored and naive third parties is a much more realistic description.
      The concept of “cyberwarfare” is peddled by fear-merchants who profit from the paranoia created among the technically unskilled general public. This is the whole premise the IT security industry operates on, and the same applies to the DHS when you hear pronouncements about China having a state-sponsored “cyberwarfare” program that has been attacking the USA for example. What people don’t know is that the perceived threat from China has nothing to do with any state sponsored attempt to infilitrate american systems, and everything to do with the fact that China and south-east asia on the whole is full of insecure infrastructure which is taken advantage of by *western hackers* to hide their tracks when trying to infiltrate systems in their own countries!

  3. There is speculation, given that the U.S. has helped Georgia build-up its military, and that Israel has advisers in Georgia, that this is the first salvo in the USRAEL attack on Iran.

    From what I have read, the war between Russia and Georgia will prevent Russia from providing material support to Iran when USRAEL attacks it.

    Very sad day. I feel deeply for all the innocent people trapped in this conflict.

    1. “From what I have read, the war between Russia and Georgia will prevent Russia from providing material support to Iran when USRAEL attacks it….”

      For some odd reason–or perhaps not so odd at all–that line of reasoning has a Neo-Con ring to it.

      And the Georgian attack, contrary to the formal ceasefire agreement with Russia and Ossetia, as the Olympics opened has also that “war as public relations” ring.

      Did the Georgian president seriously believe that the Olympic opening ceremonies and Bush’s and Putin’s presence there would mean a delayed Russian response and enough breathing space to present the world with a fait accompli in Ossetia?

      If so, once again there is a somewhat Neo-Con and Bush-and-Cheneyesque ring to it.

      Too, one is not quite sure why the mainstream press is not describing Georgia’s pitiful “Shock and Awe” in Ossetia as a “sneak attack”.

      Instead, Bush and Cheney and their press lapdogs are emphasizing the supposed “disproportionate nature of the response” by the Russians and the necessity of preserving “Georgia’s territorial integrity”.

      This means simply that the Georgians, US allies and trained by the US military, have already lost the war they went out of their way to begin.

      Any number of Serbs must be vastly amused.

      It is also perhaps not completely insignificant that Ossetic (the old Sarmatian) is an Iranian language, as I recall.

  4. What is very interesting about this whole event is that it seems like NATO was involved with planning this move by Georgia during the NATO Summit in Bucharest many months ago. Just another example of NATO's extreme anti-Russian bias, which is bound to come back to haunt us in the future.

    1. Just imagine what would or could be happening if Georgia had been admitted to Nato. We might now be facing an actual war with Russia with unforseeable consequences.

  5. The killing of Russian peacekeepers as well as South Ossetian civilians (many of whom are Russian citizens) by Georgian troops (right before the start of the Olympics) prompted the intervention by the Russian government. For obvious reasons, this is being portrayed as an unprovoked invasion of Georgia by the Russian government in the US media. Georgia is an ally of the US government, so of course, there won’t be any criticism of the actions of the Georgian government. In 2006, voters in South Ossetia overwhelmingly voted for independence. Since Saakashvilli (the Georgian President) promised to reunite South Ossetia and Abkhazia with Georgia, the only “peaceful” means he had in mind, was to use force. Unless Saakashvilli gives up on his plans to bring Abkhazia and South Ossetia under the control of the Georgian government, there will be violence.

  6. This is an outrageous act of aggression by a US puppet and proxy client state. Georgia is a creation of the CIA, the Pentagon, and the color revolutions planned, organized, and funded in Washington,DC. The puppet leaders of Geirgia are CIA stooges and puppets. The US Government has thousands of US troops and “adviseers” in Georgia who have been planning and organizing this aggression from the start.

    Does anyone believe the CIA puppets and stooges in Tbilisi ordered this aggression without US appproval and planning? And how clever, right at the start of the Olympics? That seems like a US psyops ploy. US psyops are sooooo brilliant! This is an act of suicide by the Geirgian puppets. What did their US masters tell them?

    At any arte this is a test of Russian resolve. Will Russia allow a US puppet force to kill its peacekeepers and to murder Russian civilians? Will Russia take Tbilisi and execute that US puppet stooge that the CIA installed there? We will have to see.

    The US media coverage was insane. Georgian soldiers are shooting Katyusha rockets at Ossetian civilians and CNN says nothing. Thousands of Ossetians are murdered by US puppets and stooges and the US and Western media censors and suppresses the news. Why is the US opposing Ossetian independence and freedom?

    This aggression by a US satellite state has all the fingerprints of US planning and organization from Washington.It is an act of national suicide by Georgia. It is a test of Russian resolve and will demonstrate whether Russia is willing to protect its national interests.

    1. If it’s an act of “national suicide” by Georgia, as you state, then doesn’t that imply that it’s the entire “nation” of Georgia, rather than just a “puppet” government supposedly set up by the CIA, that’s responsible for what’s happened?

      My wife is from Abkhazia, I spent a year myself working there (2000-2001) as part of a humanitarian organization, and I’ve also spent considerable time in Georgia. Saakashvili doesn’t strike me as a “puppet” of the US in this particular affair, and there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of ordinary Georgians, for better or worse, have supported him in his long-standing political, diplomatic, and now military campaign to reattach Abkhazia and South Ossetia to Georgia – just as they supported him in his previously successful effort to reattach Adjaria, another wayward republic, a few years ago. They may regret their support now, for obvious reasons, but my own interactions with people in that part of the world over a long period of time leave no doubt in my mind that this is the case. In that sense, it’s not just the Georgian government that’s to be held responsible for what’s happened, but the Georgian public in general.

      Hatreds between the Ossetians and the Georgians on the one hand, and between the Abkhaz and Georgians on the other, are of long standing, and don’t require any “stimulus” from the West to burst into war in my view. After all, no one has suggested that the 1992-1993 war between Georgia and Abkhazia – the one my wife personally lived through as a girl of 14 – was in any way related to Western intervention. Anywhere between 20 – 40,000 people (out of a total population of about 500,000) were killed in that conflict, and the bitter wounds run deep to this day. My wife is ethnically Armenian – therefore perhaps to be viewed as “technically neutral” in this dispute – but even she can scarcely contain herself when remembering the actions of Georgian soldiers when they invaded her country at that time. She has not, and never will, forget what happened then – nor, for that matter, will the tens of thousands of ethnic Georgians who were subsequently forced to flee their homes in Abkhazia with nothing but the shirts on their backs as a result of what can’t be viewed as anything less than an act of ethnic cleansing by the victorious Abkhaz forces. Thousands of them died in the snowy mountains of neighboring Svanetia while trying to reach safety during those weeks of panicked flight.

      There’s no need to invoke malign Western influences as being somehow involved in every conflict that takes place around the globe. It’s a sad fact that “ordinary” people are quite capable of remembering and storing up their hatreds as, if not more, “efficiently” than governments – and, I might add, of precluding any sort of compassionate settlement of differences at a later date as a result of grimly hanging on to those prejudices till their dying day.

      The Georgian government, no doubt feeling it had some “license” as a result of supportive public opinion, took a terrible risk in invading South Ossetia, and will now pay the inevitable price. What saddens me personally is that, as in all such conflicts, ordinary people will be the ones to pay the highest price of all in terms of loss of life and property.

      My wife and two young children left two weeks ago to pay a visit her parents in Ochamchira, one of the southern cities of Abkhazia, close to the Georgian border. As you can imagine, I’m virtually beside myself with anxiety. From my own perspective, I can only hope this will all end quickly and with minimum loss of life on both sides.

      1. Thanks for sharing your experiences, mjabele, and, of course, share your hopes for the innocents.

      2. All very well, but Sakashvilli IS a neocon and an authoritarian. He has instigated terrible violence against protesters and political dissidents alike, and has been just as corrupt as the previous pro-Russian government.

        He IS allied with the main CIA/Neocon think tanks and “aid” agencies. That many Georgians were swept up in the propaganda of the Rose Revolution doesn’t make them responsible for the regime’s war crimes, as you seem to imply.

        The attack on South Ossetia was aimed at civilians in an Israeli style ethnic cleansing operation. Figure it out.

        1. Do you honestly think that the Georgian desire to regain Abkhazia and South Ossetia by force started during Saakashvili’s presidency? Sorry, but it started long before that, while he was still a puppy getting his degree at Columbia, and Shevardnadze had just turned tail and flown out of Sukhumi in disgrace as the city was being retaken by Abkhaz forces in 1993.

          We can agree that Saakashvili has authoritarian tendencies and might well be guilty of war crimes that deserve examination at The Hague, but in point of fact the man epitomizes a long-standing strain of public sentiment in Georgia which views the recovery of these wayward republics as essential in some way to preservation of the national character.

        2. You stated that he is “no puppet”. He is. Whilst there may well be some element of national pride, history shows that elites promote and use these sentiments to further a political agenda.

  7. All I know is if the U.S. was smart it would stay out of it and mind its own business. This is Josef Stalin’s Georgia, not Jimmy Carter’s.

  8. Watch how the Russians give the Chinese a demonstration on how to deal with the Tibetans if they should get too ” smart”. Watch how the Chinese and Tibetans observe how the “World” will do nothing whilst the Russians discipline the Georgians. Watch how the Dalai Llama will be the next voice you hear on the news about the situation in Tibet and that peace and dialogue is the only alternative because he knows only to well what the Chinese will do without flinching. Watch how the CIA operatives advising the Georgians make plans to say their goodbyes before the Russian Special Forces enter their “residences’ and kick the s@%t out of them.
    Watch how the plan to distract the gullible American public from the nasty situation that seek to incriminate Bruce backfire as the FBI fumbles etc etc etc ha ha ha What a world we live in, that these so called “Think Tanks” and Consultants would be willing to have people killed here and there so that their criminal behavior would be undetected. At least for now. Hey ! it looked good on paper and in theory! but why doesn’t it work in the real world world!!!!!!!….

  9. Israel is aiding Georgia right now..but we already knew that the Pharisees/Bolsheviks are still at war with Russia..Check out the story: http://www.blacklistednews.com
    Assuredly, the Russians realize they are being surrounded and will give more aid to Iran and, hopefully, Syria…The American Empire can’t mind it’s own business any more than a porn addict can drive past a porn store…It’s become our identity culturally and our “global leadership” ( in our little minds ) is all we have to offer the world, besides porno, lieing politicians like Bush and bad music..Sometimes an addict needs “tough love”..God knows that..pride goeth before a fall..And after the fall of the American Empire? Well, they’ll sell us the American Union and the Amero ( our new currency )..

  10. This is very interesting event. Being Russian, having moved to Russia after 13 years spent in the US I was elated to find that Russian Army retaliated for US controlled territory attacking Southern Osetia (which is – well – now certainly a territory controlled by Russia).

    Many questions.
    1. Timing. Georgia started massive missile attacks on civilians and lightly armed Russian troops on the very day of Chinese Olympics. There can be two reasons: a) it’s US way to say hello to China b) crazy ruler of Georgia decided that nobody would notice, since everybody would be at Olympics … or some such
    2) Russia’s quick and rather competent reaction – now – not only NATO had plans of operation like that discussed, but Russian Army had specifically JUST completed war games with exactly that kind of scenario – one week before the events. Reasons a) Russia’s intelligence had provided the clues that the attack is coming b) similar to a) – Russia has ways to influence what Georgia does c) it’s all part of a mutually agreed (with the US) plan
    3) Moment of truth – if US will not react very strongly to protect Georgia, then the all the “puppet” regimes surrounding Russia would be much weaker from now on. On the other hand – if US would react very strongly (what can it be – engage into a direct conflict with Russia, potentially leading into a massive nuclear exchange?) – we can finally get to that very massive nuclear exchange and that would be THE ULTIMATE moment of TRUTH. It is quite apparent to me that US would collapse after even 20 major cities being nuked. Whereas Russia…. have seen it all – remember 1990s, remember 1940s. China would help gladly also. And be THE Superpower – I’d see China as #1 – just so it’s not the US :) I am willing to test the Moscow-region anti-missile defense system (which was by the way allowed even by the US abandoned non anti-missile defense treaty) on myself.
    4) Russia really has no choice – US is building strategic defense system, which would make Russian nuclear force useless. It is time – now – or never, to turn tables around. Fundamentally, Russia wants just one thing – to be able to take away the control from the US over nearby territories – and the MAJOR reason is in order to be able to trade natural gas and oil with Western Europe without the US backed “parasites” – such as so-called countries like Ukraine, Baltic “states” etc. As soon as Russia would be able to run the pipeline and railroads to Western Europe w/o obstacles – that would be certain new world order. We will be finally on the way to United Eurasia – which would take the US down as #1 player finally.
    5) Expect Russia-Iran cooperation going way up, if US would try to protect Georgia from sharing the unfortunate fate of Serbia – although Russian are not so ruthless, so, I’d imagine only military and oil pipeline facilities would be carefully destroyed. That PIPELINE must go away.

    So… fasten your seat belts, since its ain’t Georgia :-) any more.

    p.s. my personal opinion – it’s time for a change – US backed “World (Zionist?) Government” project is leading nowhere and is no fun (even for Jews :-) World needs/wants something else. But playing it nice for last 20 years did not bring Russia anywhere.

  11. Russia, in my view, should present Georgian leadership with the gravest of ultimatums: WITHDRAW OR FACE TOTAL WAR. The “total war” meaning bombardment of all Georgian infrastracture, capturing and imprisoning of its leaders as war criminals, airtight naval blocade, crippling of Georgian economy, etc. No wholesale slaughter of civilians, but a ruthless drive for superiority on the battlefield. Pay no attention to Western howls of indignation whatsoever, they’d do the same in a similar situation. The time for indecision is long over. Right now Russia still fights with one hand behind its back. That’s plain stupid, unless Russians want to tighten the screws slowly, which is even more painful.

    1. Do you realize that the name of this site is ANTIwar.com?

      These ethnic and religious based hatreds can simmer forever, but it’s the leaders that rile up the people, and the leaders who have most to gain.

      Now Georgia’s president is threatening martial law: Dick Cheney’s mouth must be full of saliva with envy. Cheney’s probably thinking, “Damn if we could only get the Reconquista movement in the U.S. to declare the Southwest part of Mexico — I could attack Mexico, get her oil AND finally shred what’s left of the Constitution!”

      War is NEVER the answer.

      My deepest sympathy to the innocents caught on all sides. And to the person here whose family is at risk, my hopes that they make a safe return and that their relatives survive in safety.

      1. “War is never the answer” can’t be a true statement. “Aggression” is never an answer. “Defense” is the answer. Russia’s Army got involved after a) hundreds to thousands civilians b) 15 peace-keepers in their headquarters have been killed.
        Killing civilians is never an answer. Destroying military that had done an aggression – is an answer.

        Although the site is named “antiwar”, I assume that means “anti-war-of-choice”. When people are being slaughtered they have an obligation to fight back.

        100s to 1000s of citizens of Russia have been killed. They got that citizenship due to the fact that they used to have USSR citizenship – Southern Osetia was administrative autonomy as part of USSR. NONE of such territories were/are happy about ending up outside of Russia as a result of USSR collapse. They can see the way autonomies are treated in Russia – maybe it’s not ideal by WAY better then by any of post Soviet territories.

        Georgian Govt. new perfectly well that they are ordering to murder 100s or 1000s of Russian citizens. What choice Russia got, but to bring the Army against Georgia’s military? And no tactical nuclear weapon had been used so far – THAT I would oppose, as well as purposeful hitting of civilian targets. Yes, 2-3 civilian buildings were destroyed, very sad, but it was 50-100 buildings in Southern Osetia which were destroyed on purpose. Quite different. Russia does not have any track record of civilina genocide – after all even in Germany Dresden was wiped out by US bombardment, much against Soviet will. It is Westen invention – genocide. Since Gerogia decided to go the Western Way – that’s why they resorted to it.

  12. was to work full power by 2009? Here come Russia’s SWEET REVENGE!! Let’s see if the pipeline can even remain safe and economical.

    As US is getting so weak, all its colored revolutions are fading fast.

    US puppets are becoming as impotent as US itself, Georgia probably not only lost S.Ossetia, but also Abkhazia.

    US pipeline policy around Caspian is FAILING everywhere, not just in Afghanistan despite all of the extra expense and mayhem.

  13. Georgia withdrwas from South Ossetia…and loses two of its provinces FOREVER. In the process it also makes US to display an “awe and shock” degree of impotence. America’s puppet defeats America. Another shining example of Bush sado-masochistic foreign policy.

  14. Funny how on a site called Anti-War.com we have people advocating war between Russia and Georgia (and presumably Russia and other of the “breakaway republics” of the former USSR. Look, I’m against American imperialism as much as the next person, but I can’t see how killing innocent civilians is good for anything. I understand Russia’s rationale for repelling the Georgian effort to reassert control over South Ossetia – Kosovo chickens coming home to roost for the U.S. and its stupid NATO allies – but there has to be a diplomatic solution to all this or all that will be left is smoldering rubble and decaying corpses – the very thing we’ve been opposing in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past 7+ years.

    So get a grip, people, and oppose this war and every other war.

    Peace. Out.

    1. We do oppose this war (not just the Russian segment of it, as you want), and every other war. But when you have Georgia – a country that fancies itself as “Israel of Caucasus”, and then kills 3% of South Ossetian population within 2 days, how do oppose it without apportioning an appropriate punishment first? I’ll call for Russian withdrawal once Georgian military rendered useless. Even better, gone.

    1. Anybody can move to a country that is not doing something that he completely can not accept. That was true even in the USSR, but certainly is STILL true about the current US :-)

      Canada looks better so far. Even UK. Australia. New Zealand. Culturally close, but much saner Govts. Not ideal of course. “Voting with your feet”?

  15. PEOPLE!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!HELP TO SOUTH OSETIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    THIS IS THE WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WE DON’T KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This message was from Tchinval(Osetia)////

    People rescue us! We only wish to live! We survive, we live last hours! It is the Hell! Rescue us from the Georgian!!!!
    Here we know the thrue http://southosetia.wordpress.com

    My God, rescue us! How many it is possible to destroy innocent people which wants the world??? That is created now-it does not give in to human reason! I have left some hours prior to war! In Tchinval there was an aunt, to undertake, nephews, close friends! They ask about the help, and I can help nothing! Today in 5 mornings there was last communication with the friend: We shall not live till the morning!!!! Farewell!!! At me heart is broken off!!! UNDERSTAND??? A battery at all are unloaded! People have nothing to eat, there is no water!My native and favourite DIE, while the severe president of Georgia cherishs the dreams!

    HELP US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OUR PEOPLE IS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Georgia killing Osetia!!!

    1. Dear Madina,

      I am terribly sorry for your plight and that of everyone else caught-up in this atrocity!

      I will do my best tomorrow when Congress is open (well, sort-of open — I have to question the convenient timing of Georgia’s aggression in regard to Congress’ ability to respond, even if it wanted to) to tell them to tell Georgia to back off immediately.

      I don’t know what else we can do.

      As an American, I have sat here impotent as my country has slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghans, and aided Israel in her slaughter of Palestinians and Lebanese.

      I have: marched; called Congress even after my Congressional reps. threatened me with harassment (forgetting, as always, that they work for me and not vice versa); joined local and national peace groups; funded and volunteered for antiwar candidates; volunteered with humanitarian aid groups; talked everyone I know’s ears off begging them to also call Congress and the media and scream at them to stop these wars NOW.

      All to no avail: my government does what it wants, as is evidenced by the Democrats not taking an antiwar stance on Iraq. They do not listen to us.

      But I suggest that we all call Congress tomorrow and demand that the U.S. government tell Georgia to agree to an immediate ceasefire and diplomatic relations, or we cut off funding immediately as well. Remind those jerks in Congress that this is an election year and Americans’ dissatisfaction with Congress is at record highs, and we’ll kick their butts out of office if the U.S. starts, stays-in or facilitates any more wars.

      Number for Congress’ switchboard — just ask for your reps offices from there:

      202 224 3121

      Best of luck Madina, and know that there are Americans out there who are truly appalled and outraged by your suffering. Many of us.

      1. “and know that there are Americans out there who are truly appalled and outraged by your suffering. Many of us.”

        That strikes me as sharply in contrast with your faith in the American Congress! Just wait for their criminally stupid resolutions supporting the bombing and killing of civilians, 1,400 of them, by their neocon in Tiblisi.

        1. I don’t have faith in Congress — NONE — I just don’t know what else I can do.

          As I said, I have tried every peaceful method to get the U.S. government not to start, continue or facilitate wars.

          What else can I do?

          And I do think that the public outcry against H.Con. Res 362 and Senate Res. 580, i.e., the Iran war resolutions, did cause Congress to back down somewhat.

          We have an extremely dumbed down public, deliberately dumb downed because the powers that be want a servile working class, and no middle-class. This was evidenced by one of George Dubya’s State of the Union addresses when he talked about a “service” economy.

          Readers of antiwar.com, being relatively aware, thus have an obligation to hold Congress to account, and be VERY vocal when we do tell Congress where to get off.

        2. We have a dumbed-down public because Americans simply cannot be bothered to take the time and effort to learn the true facts for themselves (not having a draft helps a great deal too). They would rather watch American Idol. Most Americans simply don’t care enough about foreign policy issues or matters, which they see (wrongly) as not touching upon them very much. It is the willful ignorance and indifference of the American people that ENABLES the Military-Industrial complex, the informal American empire and the neocons. It would take a truly massive “blowback” (something that would make 9/11 look like child’s play) to make ordinary Americans wake up and take notice.

        3. It is a wild guess, but I think 362, 580 being delayed, has more to do with China agreeing to buy a big chunk of America’s debt. Not that the Chinese love us, but they could have as well not done it.

          “I just don’t know what else I can do”.

          Like all empires before it, the solution to the America Problem lies outside of the empire’s headquarters which is roughly the area between Mexico and Canada. And that solution is coming, to borrow a phrase from American right wing jerk offs, fast and furious.

          But in the meantime, how about revolution. The West has been impressing upon us the utility of that for as long as we can remember. Never mind that when it comes to them they look at it like vomit. So, since you do not know how to revolt, you better stick to simple things, like giving the shaft to W’s “Service economy”. Like you know, eating at home, and not going out to watch movies or sports events, or not buying music records or computer games and so forth. In short don’t do anything that can contribute to any sort of statistics, i.e. don’t pay to be counted. In shorter still, undermine the silent; or as you have it dumb, majority.

          Easy as pie! :)

    2. Georgia is a puppet of the US…therefore it is the vicious bloodthirsty retards in the US who are killing you!

      Good luck to you and yours.

  16. I want to draw your ATTENTION to this information:

    Russian Army had detained a black (Negro) combatant, inside of Southern Osetia, national of the US. He is now being interrogated in Northern Osetia capital.

    So – we have it – US army officers are killing Russian citizens.

    Russia has over 6000 strategic nuclear charges deployed and over 1000 tactical. Is not it the time for US people to START thinking about what are they really part of?

    US Govt. had directly participated in killing of over 1000 Russian citizens. Very bad. Not to be forgiven.

    1. As soon as the Olympics are over the shooting part of World War III will begin…only this time it will be brought right into the heart of the US; thanks to all the cowardly do-nothings in the US and Briton a new dark age is upon us all!

      Let the world remember who started this conflagration and act toward them accordingly!

  17. To Ali,

    I do know that the public outcry caused at least three congresspeople to take their names off of H. Con. Res 362, and that it also caused Wexler to try to amend it.

    Anyway, it appears that China is actually benefiting from sanctions, so I don’t understand what you were talking about with China bribing the U.S. by buying off our debt to stop H. Con Res. 362 and Senate Res. 580

    China and Russia reap the benefits of sanctions
    International Herald Tribune
    8/10/08

    In this environment, one would think that the international community would be doing everything in its power to press Iran into accepting a compromise. And the developed world is rightly ratcheting up the pressure on the Iranian government.

    Yet two countries – China and Russia – are not only undermining the effort, they are actually profiting from the rest of the world’s sanctions.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/10/opinion/edgleis.php

    1. It was a wild guess, so I will not pursue it further.

      Two million people marched in London to stop Tony Blair from not attacking Iraq, to no avail. There were hundreds of demonstrations, some tens of thousands strong in America to stop America from invading Iraq, again to no avail. Now, you are claiming that a few phone calls to some congressman stopped the AIPAC sponsored resolutions against Iran.

      http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=66269&sectionid=351020205

      The developed world is not ratcheting up pressure on Iran. In fact it is supporting Iran. They know it is their turn next, if the so called “international community”, comprised of America, Israel, and UK get their way with Iran’s nuclear program.

      The trade between Iran and Europe was up 17% in 2007. It is going to stay around that level in 2008. Iran will buy what it needs from anyone that is offering it. The trade between China and Russia and Iran would have gone up anyway with or without the nuclear case. China and Russia have a lot to offer, and the West is totally unreliable. The Western countries consider themselves as the civilized part of the world and the rest as backward, barbarians of the world. That may please a lot of egos in the West, but we do not have to like it and applaud it with our wealth and resources. The trade with China and Russia is going to increase, no matter what.

      1. One notes that the latest International Monetary Fund report on Iran suggests “inflationary overheating” due to “higher oil prices”.

        Meanwhile, in other reports the IMF rather daintily skirts the issue of the collapse of the US dollar, and the end of its status, in effect, as the world reserve currency.

        The game has become transparent to everyone but the American people, who, like mushrooms, prefer to remain in the dark and be fed a steady diet of BS.

  18. Georgian leaders are admitting that over 200 of their soldiers have been killed in this blatant act of aggression and genocide by a US puppet regime. Russian officials have stated that the Georgian CIA puppet should be hung for war crimes and for genocide and that there should be regime change like the US pulled in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Russian and Ossetian forces have destroyed the Georgian army that the US trained and “advised”. So much for US military training. The Georgian army got wiped out. Ossetian troops claimed that they destroyed a Georgian tank column as well.

    There is no question the dictator of Georgia is a madman with a death wish. He is CIA installed and American trained and educated. He is a US puppet dictator. Now Russian officials say he must go. They may launch a decapitation strike to take him out.

    Russia should now immediately recognize Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states. Serbia, Montenegro, Bela Rus and other countries should also recognize Ossetia and Abkhazia. Why should Albanians have two countries and Ossetians and Abkhazians none? Why is the US so opposed to freedom and democracy for people who strive to be free and independent? Is it because Georgia is a puppet and satellite statelet? Could that have something to do with it?

    The ploy here is transparent. Georgia wants to “internationalize” the conflict. That is really the stupid game here. It means getting NATO troops into Ossetia. That is the real game here, NATO expansion.

    Vladimir Putin, however, has stated that Ossetia can never be a part of Georgia anymore and must be independent. The genocide the CIA puppet and stooge committed in Ossetia means that independence is the only option.

    Finally, why is the US using American transport planes to fly 2,000 Georgian troops to Ossetia? The Russian and Ossetian forces drove the Georgian army out of the Ossetian capital and killed over 200 Georgian soldiers. Where are these new troops from Iraq going to? Someone should tell them the Georgian army got wiped out. Also, what about the cease-fire?

    The only way to stabilize this volatile situation is for Russia and other countries to recognize the independence and freedom of Abkhazia and Ossetia immediately. Moreover, why is the US installing and arming these genocidal puppets who only want war? This is a dangerous policy of NATO encirclement of Russia which will only result in future wars. This is a policy that will not benefit Georgia but only the US military industrial complex.

  19. A war between Georgia, US and Israeli puppet, and the Russian Federation to occupy the mainstream press in the US while Israel strikes Iran?

    Again it has the mark of the Neo-Cons and the Likud, including the fact that it is: (1) lunatic, and (2) unworkable.

    Ah well, that has never stopped Bush and Cheney from considering such plots unalloyed genius.

    It is not too late to impeach.

    No impeachment? That defines Congress and Constitution quite nicely.

    1. Are you kidding?

      Mr. Costa’s posts always offer an interesting and very-well informed perspective. He’s a little cynical but can he be really blamed for that. Sadly, very few people seem to understand his importance of impeachment that he always advocates. I personally doubt that it will ever happen in this comically-partisan congress. Things are really really bad when even someone like Ron Paul makes some lame excuse for not supporting impeachment or when someone like Pat Buchanan supported GWB reelection in 2004.

      Savour the moment people .. this age of mediocrity won’t last forever (hopefully).

  20. The only way to rationally and fairly resolve the South Ossetia and Abkhazia issues is to let the people vote on independence. let the people decide. The CIA puppet that the US put in georgia keeps yapping about “democracy” and “freedom”. Put democracy into action. Let the people of Ossetia and Abkhazia decide their future.

    When they had a referendum in 2006, over 99% of the people in SOuth Ossetia voted to be independent. That is true democracy.

    Moreover, the Abkhazians and ossetians have already defeated the US puppet Georgian Government in two wars for independence and freedom. georgia has lost any claims or rights to these independent states. Moreover, the genocide that the psychopathic puppet that the US put in Tbilisi in those insane Color Revolutions sponsored by the CIA has committed genocide and war crimes. He is not only a US puppet, but a genocidal war criminal.

    The only way to resolve this issue is through democracy. Let the people of SOuth Ossetia and Abkhazia vote in a referendum whether they want to be free and independent. That is the way to solve the crisis. Let the issue be resolved by democracy, not by some psycho US installed puppet in some mindless CIA Color Revolution.

  21. NATO " Article 5:

    The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and …. "

    Georgia is in Asia, therefore wouldn't it be excluded from Article 5 of the NATO treaty, if it ever became a NATO member?

  22. Wow, I just came across this site while searching for something else and decided to pop in and see what everyone had to say…Well, after my nausea went away the three words that came to mind are uneducated communist cult. Do you people really believe this crap you are preaching? Yes of course we all want peace – more than anything, but are you all willing to stop wars, pull out troops, give up your freedom, and most likely die at the hands of someone that want to kill you because they don’t like your religion or beliefs? I’m one of the guys that crosses the oceans to fight for YOUR freedoms and this is how you repay our sacrifices? It’s not sad, it’s a duty, an honor – none of us want to die but we will to protect your freedoms! And, if we stop tomorrow and all come home? This war will be fought as will many others – If we don’t fight the wars on their own soil the fighting will come to us, is that what you really want? Do you want your family, your children to be exposed to bloodshed in their streets and homes? Yes, it’s ashame the world can’t be a peaceful place – We, and I have worked very hard to make our United States of America safe from foreign threats and peaceful. There is much that goes on in this world and in the US everday that the public eye does not see, All you hear is what the press is told to report on – You think the press is free? The reason you don’t get the facts and the real news on TV is because in the past the press has been responsible for more military and civilian casualties the “The War” ever has. The press reports their view of what is going on in the distance, and what is fed to them by Public Affairs – it’s done that way to keep our troops safe from reporters reporting troop movements and positions over satellite upfeeds. You all need to take a step back and take a look at reality because from what I’m reading everthing you’re writing about is based on opinion and false information. Face it, you may never know the real answers – It’s a fact. If you want to help – stop working against us and start supporting us, you think we don’t know the odds when we head off to war? We signed the oath, we made the choice, we know the risk. Stop with the crying, hold your heads high and honor us with your strength, honor us with the stars and stripes of old glory. It’s honor for us to do our duty and die if necessary – stop taking that honor away from us, stop mourning our deaths and start celebrating our life and sacrifice! If you really want to honor us stop with the death toll count, and start giving us the moral support we need to finish the job and come home. Remember I’m not fighting for me – I’m fighting for all of you and your families so that you can wake up tomorrow in a safe USA. This web site is a disgrace to me, the military and the red, white, and blue I took an oath to protect! If you don’t believe in the freedoms we’re giving you that I suggest you start looking for a new country to live in because this one will be free as long as i’m alive to fight for it!

  23. “Finish the job”?? Turning Iraq into an arabic Puerto Rico? Giving Israel 1/2 of Lebanon? Making the war profiteers happy? Keeping oil sold for dollars and not Euros?
    What does any of this crap have to do with your freedom Mr. knee-jerk jingo-istic flag waving Fox News zombie???

    1. You shouldn’t make comments that show your level of understanding and education so well, makes you look like an idiot – I’m sure you’re a smart guy who just doesn’t know how to get his point across. Besides, these topics are WAY above your pay grade.

  24. For Russia that has occured in South Ossetia on August, 8th when Georgia has attacked Ossetia, the same, that for the USA towers-twins on September, 11th. Quantity of victims respective. Saakashvili the rockets has killed more than 1500 peace inhabitants, and CITIZENS of the Russian Federation! That I see now is there would be the same as though after tragedy on September, 11th 2001, any country has supported ???-????? and in support Ben Ladanu has sent 18 military ships in the help to terrorists. Be on a place of the Russian Federation the USA, for a long time Saakashvili would be hung up. And the USA supported all this time " Caucasian Ben Ladana ".

    I.e. that now I see me in mass-media of the Europe horrifies – Russia has attacked small Georgia… That would be if Russian tanks have not entered into Ossetia, that, not having protected the peace population, probably, defenders of human rights does not interest any more, only as Russian kill everything, bears fat… Well it in fact, you see, is immoral also it so awfully. Has still seen a photo with the signature " Russian attack to Georgia " – why do not publish a photo as the Georgian militarians have alive burnt the house with children and old men about whom Putin and as they killed peacemakers spoke.

    Georgia has attacked Ossetia, instead of the Russian Federation to Georgia – in mass-media is even huge quantity links to references of the European editions which refer to " information war ". Western mass-media are not absolutely pure, give not the true information, in particular the Air Forces, therefore it is not necessary to accuse the Russian Federation of all sins at once. The picture which was drawn with the western mass-media, essentially differed from the validity.

    I do not work to the Kremlin, or on Putin as many European mass-media can think. I the simple inhabitant, and this my opinion. Sorry for my English.

    ??? ?????? ??, ??? ????????? ? ????? ?????? 8 ???????, ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????, ?? ?? ?????, ??? ??? ??? ?????-???????? 11 ????????. ?????????? ????? ???????????????. ?????????? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? 1500 ?????? ???????, ?????? ??????? ??! ??? ? ???? ?????? – ??? ???? ?? ?? ?? ?????, ??? ???? ?? ????? ???????? 11 ???????? 2001, ?????-???? ?????? ?????????? ???-????? ? ? ????????? ??? ?????? ????????? 18 ??????? ???????? ? ?????? ???????????. ???? ?? ????? ?? ???, ????? ?? ?????????? ??? ???????. ? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???????????? "??????????? ??? ??????".

    ?.?. ??, ??? ?????? ? ???? ? ????-????? ?????? ???? ??????? – ?????? ?????? ?? ????????? ??????… ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ? ??????, ??? ?????, ?? ??????? ?????? ?????????, ??????, ?????????? ???? ???????? ??? ?? ??????????, ?????? ??? ??????? ??????? ????, ??????? ??????… ?? ??? ????, ???????????, ????????? ? ??? ??? ??????.

    ??? ?????? ?????????? ? ???????? "??????? ????? ?? ??????" – ?????? ?? ?? ????????? ??????????, ??? ?????????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ? ?????? ? ?????????, ? ??????? ??????? ?????, ? ??? ??? ??????? ???????????.

    ?????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????, ? ?? ?? ?? ?????? – ? ????-????? ???? ???? ???????? ???-?? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????????? ???????, ??????? ?????????? "?????????????? ?????". ???????? ????-????? ?? ?????? ?????, ???? ?? ?????? ??????????, ? ??????????? ???, ??????? ?? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ??????. ???????, ??????? ?????????? ???????? ???, ??????????? ?????????? ?? ????????????????.

    ? ?? ??????? ?? ??????, ??? ?? ??????, ??? ?????? ??????????? ????-????? ????? ????????. ? ??????? ?????????, ? ??? ??? ??????.

  25. Georgia Did Not Start the War: The Russians did!

    Since beginning of August 2008, the Russian “Peacekeepers” together with Ossetian illegal militia have been ethnically cleansing Georgian villages and killing innocent civilians! Just think about this…

    Many experts and diplomats wondered whether the Russian government is sick with xenophobia and with the nostalgia of “good, old Soviet Union” is trying to revive the forgotten empire. Or maybe they are just playing a very stupid game that will have extremely severe consequences to the future of Russia and its citizens.

    It is not a new fact that the people from Caucasus republics are constantly being discriminated in Russia, are targets of Russian neo-Nazi groups and live second class citizens lives. The Russian government never tried to understand the mentality, culture and social norms of the people from the Caucasus region. Throughout history the Russian empire or the Soviets or Putin’s regime have been applying one rule to the Caucasus region in order to maintain control over it: divide and conquer! Putin successfully fueled ethnic tensions between various Caucasus nationalities, so they all had to look up to the Russians for help and the roots of this policy date back to Tsar’s Russian Empire, when the Russians were only able to take control over Caucasus with the help of Caucasus nations, primarily the Georgians. The Georgians thought they were doing a favor and Tsar would leave them alone to govern their own lives, but the Georgians were wrong.

    After the collapse of Soviet Union the Russian government successfully fueled ethnic tensions between Armenians and Azerbaijanis, Georgians and Ossetians, Georgians and Abkhazians, Ingushis and Ossetians, etc… This was the only strategy and the only game the Russian rulers played by: fuel hatred, divide the territories, resettle and arm the people so there will be no peace until the Russian soldier places his foot in the region. And of course, the Russian army is known for their outstanding performance in “peacekeeping” missions that have carried out, being involved in genocide, ethnic cleansing (Georgians in Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechen civilians), rape, murder, torture and the list goes on. At the end it seems that the Russian “peacekeeping mission” is not that peaceful at all.

    It is evident that the Russian political system always been in shape of a Pyramid, where all the political and economic control spheres of country is divided between a leader (Czar, or Secretary General or Prime Minister) at the top, who has a direct control and right hand support of secret service at one angle and military at the other. This is the heart of the Russian political life and everything else develops around it. With a strong propaganda machine, complete control over Russian citizens is assured, as well as “democratic” elections where one candidate always receives the vast majority (if not all) of the votes and there never seems to be opposition to the candidate. And what about the President Medvedev? He is just another toy in Putin’s closet…

    Putin decided to send a strong signal to the world and wished to overthrow the Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, but he failed. He strongly believes that the fate of the Georgian people depends on his wishes and is determine to shape the borders of another sovereign country. This move directly threatens the World Order established after World War II. The current World Order is not perfect, but so far, with its deficiencies it is working.

    After the brief war with Georgia, the Russian government tried to justify its move by saying that the Georgians started the war. Here is the first lie! The Georgian government has been saying since beginning of August 2008 that the situation in South Ossetia is escalating and the Russian “peacekeepers” are staging provocations together with illegal armed forces of South Ossetian separatist regime. They started killing Georgian police officers and firing artillery shells at the Georgian villages located in South Ossetia, but the world was preoccupied with getting ready for the opening ceremony of Beijing 2008 Olympics.

    When the Georgian government officials told the Europeans in Brussels that we were at the brink of war, the Europeans politely warned the Georgians not to use the word “war” in the city of Brussels, because they do not like the word “war.” It seems that old Europe is getting older each day and with the age, because numerous warnings and cries by the Georgian officials fell on the deaf ears of old Europe. Never mind the fact that it took Hitler conquering Poland and Czechoslovakia, before the Western Europe realized this was a war.

    And what about the Americans? The American society is in the midst of elections, the Democrats want to see Europe take more responsibility for security in Caucasus region, the Republicans are divided and worried about gay marriage and abortion rights… The friends of Georgia in new Europe are trying everything to force the old Europe take harsher approach towards Russia, but Europe is dependent on Russian natural gas and oil.
    Giving up on a young democracy does not seem plausible for the Europeans, but the old Europe is scared of the new Russian bear. The new Russia is controlled by a xenophobic psychopath who has decided to break all the rules of the game, in order to change those rules. And the question comes: how can you stop a bully? Everyone can keep condemning the Russian government, but that paper will wind up in Putin’s toilet again… The only way to stop a bully is bully up against the bully – simple rule of life.

    With the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the Russian government has proven the world that they will violate international laws whenever they feel like it and they will use aggression in the name of peace as they did in Prague 1968. If the world would not stand up for Georgia, who will be the next prey of the hungry Russian bear? Maybe Ukraine? Or Moldova? Or who knows… The Russian government is as unpredictable as the weather in England…

    The Georgian people are united and stand united, we have survived the onslaught by Mongols, Persians, Arabs, Turk-Seljuks throughout the history and we have still survived and we are not scared of the Russian bear either.

    Just last question to Mr. Putin. Mr. Putin, if you are so concerned about the freedom of small minorities, why not recognize the independence of Chechnya? Then Daghestan? Then Ingushetia? And then all the other autonomous republics where the citizens do not even speak Russian? Think about that at first and then lets discuss the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, after 300,000 Georgian refugees return to their own homes.
    And to my fellow Abkhazian and South Ossetian brothers and sisters. Yes, there will be dancing and celebration in Sokhumi and Tskinvali. Yes, you will be smiling and waving flags – Georgian flags of course….

  26. Russia is sick with xenophobia and bigotry and that’s why Russian politics is based on extreme forms of chauvinism and aggression. The Russians started attacking Georgian civilian villages in the beginning of August together with South Ossetian terrorists. President Mikheil Saakashvili did what any other good leader would have done: protect his people and territorial integrity of his country. As always the Russian aggression backfired at Russians and so far, Russia politically is losing this war.

    Recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia? Give me a break. The Russians kicked out more than 300,000 Georgian residents over past 18 years, burnt their homes and now they want to declare these Georgian provinces as independent? Let the Georgian population return and conduct a referendum, I am sure the vast majority of residents will have different priorities.

    The Russians have only shown Georgia aggression, wars, ethnic cleansing for more than 200 years. This is the reason we are trying and we will obviously join NATO. Russia never wanted peace with Georgia, the Russians always wanted piece of Georgia. But, we will not surrender. We have been fighting wars since the existence of our nation, against Mongols, Persians, Arabs, Turk-Seljuks and Russians won’t enslave us.

    We will not give up our freedom, liberties or land. So I would suggest Mr. Putin and Mr. Medvedev that you respect our freedom and if you are truly concerned with small ethnic minorities’ self-determination, then recognize the freedom of all ethnicities that you are controlling with fear and terror, recognize the freedom and independence of Chechnya, Ingushetia, Daghestan, Tatarstand and all the other autonomous republics within the Russian Federation, where local residents do not even speak Russian and despise the Russian government.

    Then lets talk about status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia…

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