US Getting RIPPED OFF In Ukraine War Saagar Enjeti of Breaking Points on US military aid to Ukraine and how America is being ripped off by its European allies:
28 thoughts on “US Getting RIPPED OFF In Ukraine War”
The US is getting RIPPED OFF in the Ukraine War. It’s the MSM’s and US Government’s fault. Volodomyr Zelensky is no hero, he is a thug wanting to get attention on the world stage. Ukraine persecutes its Russian speaking population and that’s why those regions should break away from Ukraine and be a nation or part of Russia.
Zelensky has ties to the Azov Battalion despite the fact he is Jewish and members of his family were killed in the Holocaust and the Azov Battalion have ties to Nazis.
Happy to see Saagar featured on AntiWar.com, despite his half-Windsor.
Odd kind of take for anti-war, he sounded more like a dim right wing Trump kinda guy. Hit all those talking points. Make Germany pay more, for the war the US started and which Germany didn’t want? OK, that’s a good way to get the German people to revolt against NATO, if that’s the plan I’m all for it. And then, what will we do if we get into a real war with China? Well how about not start a war with China in the first place? Instead of laying out this silly line that somehow they are a threat or that we need more Javalins and Stingers, for what? To give to Taiwan to tick off China, so they invade? And of course the obligatory, Ukraine’s cause is just and we should support them on our terms, which could also mean what? Half as much weapons, twice as many?
I have to say I can’t stand this right wing form of “realism” or whatever they pretend this is. I personally don’t even see this as a realist spin, it just comes off as a weird spin on Trump’s personal policy, which, let’s face it, is hodgepodge of who knows what.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d take Trump over Biden/Clinton/Bush/Bush/Obama but he’s not a guy I’d parrot when it comes to foreign policy. He’s never more than half right, which is still better than Biden but it’s not an Anti-war position to tell Germany to buy the bombs instead of us.
We are getting ripped off but it’s not by Germany or the rest of the countries who don’t want to toss away more money. That advice is like telling them to shoot a hole in their boat because we have shot ours full of holes already, therefore it’s only fair if they do as well.
We are getting ripped off by our government and the MIC. We are getting ripped off by Ukraine, where corruption is off the hook. We aren’t getting ripped off by the nation who lost out on a fantastic oil deal and who is paying the price for our war in massive fuel costs. In real dollars they are already paying a higher price than we are for that alone. And then there are the refugees, who once again seek shelter in Germany and other allied nations because of the wars we start.
Not a great spin.
“Don’t get me wrong, I’d take Trump over Biden/Clinton/Bush/Bush/Obama but he’s not a guy I’d parrot when it comes to foreign policy.”
Why? It was one lateral move after another. Actually, Trump’s personality makes him even more cringeworthy, but I wouldn’t want any of the others more than him because of that.
Trump: “We will pass critical reforms making every executive branch employee fireable — fireable — by the President of the United States,” Trump declared during the rally. “The deep state must and will be brought to heel”
So, we’ll have the Trump state instead of the deep state?
Trump gets stuff wrong HALF the time, this makes it easy to point out things he gets wrong. But also easy to point to the half of the time he gets it right, like being the only president of that bunch who hasn’t started a new war or new proxy war.
I’m surprised you have to ask really. By the way, the other smucks get it wrong ALL the time as far as I can tell. With Trump I get about half of what I wanted and that’s 50% more of what I wanted. Not to mention that Trump pushed the Republican party to accept the idea that endless war is idiotic and the push towards peace for America had to start with that. As long as Republicans are WORSE that Democrats Democrats can always slide by pretending to be the anti-war party by being only a fraction less bad than Republicans. Now if Democrats want to be seen as anti-war they will have to move a long way and they will want to be seen that way because that’s where the votes are.
Trump moved the nation in the right direction, mentally and in reality. Each of the others moved the nation in the wrong direction both mentally and in reality.
And it’s laughable to think we will have the “Trump” state simply because Trump is perhaps the least powerful president we have ever had, he barely was allowed to rule over anything. Trump doesn’t have the power to supplant the deep state, he does have the ability to give it a big out black eye, which he did. Now Republicans, who were all in on giving the state more power have come around to see the alphabet agencies as the bad guys too. That’s priceless, so is the idea that Republicans no longer support endless war.
Trump reformed the Mentality of the War Party’s voters and he didn’t start any new wars or even any new proxy wars. He ended the war in Afghanistan and he did so in a way that tied Biden’s hands. In Syria the first thing he did was to stop arming the headchoppers, that alone probably saved a million lives. He pulled out of Somalia Biden took us back in. Trump had to be impeached before he would send arms to Ukraine and he wanted to get along with Russia.
And I could go on like this all day long. Just because trump is 50% Bad, don’t forget the 50% of the Good that we wouldn’t have without him. That does not make him an anti-war president it simply makes him better than the warmongers that infest both parties.
By the way, the fact that you bring up his personality about anything is very telling. Most people who can’t get beyond his personality also refuse to take an objective look at his presidency. They honestly think that it matters if he acts like a nut or annoys people, when in fact every president ever annoys people, so it’s nothing new at all and doesn’t bother me a bit. I doubt I’ll ever “like” any president.
You honestly sound like someone who can’t be objective because they can’t stand Trump’s personality. Which is funny to me because I honestly can’t think of a president who’s personality I did like. Take a step back and look at what he did with his time in office and compare it with the others on the list and you will actually see why I would take Trump over them. 50% bad vs 100% bad, it’s really as simple as that.
He escalated the wars we were already in. He lifted rules of engagement to make killing easier. He did two missile strikes on Syria and never left. He sanctioned what seemed like half the world to the teeth. First, he doubled the bombing in Somalia by twice the number Obama and Bush did and the only people he pulled out, he put in.
Trump wants a “Trump” state, I didn’t say it would or could happen. The only thing he cares about is complete loyalty. He would endorse an ax murdering pedophile if that ax murdering pedophile professed his loyalty to Trump and said the election was stolen. He could care less about policy.
The fact that I bring up his personality is because that was the only difference between him and the other lousy presidents. And I didn’t say I liked the other’s personalities. Similar to you saying Trump is 50% bad and the others are 100% bad. Trump’s personality is 100% irritating while the others are less.
And finally, you decide that my objectivity is questionable because I can’t stand Trump’s personality and none of the belligerence that he continued, and even escalated, can be true.
He pulled troops out of Somalia and he increased drone strikes, but he also didn’t start the mess in the first place. Getting the troops out was more important and the compromise was drone strikes. That’s 50/50 or even better considering he didn’t start it. Biden put them back in and is increasing strikes and played a roll way back when this started in the 90’s. That’s twice as bad.
In Syria Trump wiped out ISIS, but ISIS was created by the rest of the people you think are no worse than Trump, Trump was the one who stopped arming the head choppers. And ISIS would never have existed if not for the failed war in Iraq, which was in no way Trump’s fault.
And yes he bombed Syria, after telling them he was going to, he let them know in advance and this was done in response to a phony chemical attack, where everyone wanted him to go full out and attack them with a shock and awe. He gave them a tiny bit of what they wanted and it certainly paled in comparison to what Obama and Hillary did by arming the head choppers in the first place. He did basically the bare minimum considering what world opinion was calling for.
And yes I get it you find him 100% irritating and that you don’t think it’s clouded your judgement but I’m not so sure what else could explain something that seems to contradictory to me.
You blame him for Syria, the mess created by everyone else that I listed. But it was Trump who stopped arming the headchoppers, so why does he get the blame?
He escalated the wars we were already in, which one? Afghanistan, ok compare Joe and Obama, did they not do it even worse, with an even bigger surge than Trump’s? And it was Trump who negotiated an end right? His team was at least working on peace there and Trump was pushing them hard. Who’s surge was bigger and who really worked the hardest to end the war? I’ll take Trump’s record in Afghanistan any day over Obama and Biden.
You keep forgetting to compare him to our actual presidents and their actual records. When actual wars and actual records are compared Trump comes out on top every time.
You can blame him for doing anything you want and he gets the blame for his actions just as they get the blame for theirs but they did more of it and without them Trump would not have been stuck trying to find a way out of six different wars at once.
When compared directly in regards to any of these war which one of them Obama or Clinton or Bush, who exactly of this bunch of scum didn’t escalate our wars even worse than Trump? Biden, Bush and Clinton all got us into Iraq, they all supported endless war their entire careers and they all started wars.
And that of course isn’t all of our wars. Libya was another one.
I think Trump honestly wanted to get us out of these wars but couldn’t figure out how to do it. He would have liked to have been seen as the guy who cleaned up their mess it would have been great for votes. The tough guy who cleaned house. That’s what he wanted, but he was handed nothing but war and nobody in Washington did anything but demand more war from him. He at least put up a bit of a fight against the endless wars, the rest of them are the ones he was fighting against. That’s my Opinion and if you look at his actual presidency my opinion fits the facts better than yours.
How about another example.
Although Trump failed to get a peace accord with North Korea he sure tried hard enough and I know people here don’t like Trump’s deal with Palestine but I’d bet money it’s the best deal they will ever be offered. The next one won’t be nearly as good and then the next one will be worse than that, etc. etc. Is Biden even trying?
All of the others not only started wars, they doubled down on their wars for decades.
Trump’s record is objectively better and you failed to actually compare Trump on a single one on one basis with any of the other’s on my list. You didn’t give even one clear example where Trump was worse at all.
No he’s not a peace candidate, but he had multiple chances to take us into new wars and managed to not do it, despite being pushed hard to do so. I believe that if Hillary had been president we would not have stopped arming the headchoppers, we would have ended up in war with Iran and we would still be in Afhgansitan. I also believe that if he had been allowed to work with Russia he would have. Instead the bunch of scum that you think are the same as him launched Russiagate and what did Biden do that was worse? He appointed Blinken and Neuland assuring war with Ukraine. And what’s he doing now in Ukraine?
Trump wanted to put Rex Tillerson in charge of making oil deals with Russia, instead we got a war thanks to scum that Biden and Obama appointed. The coup under Obama led directly to this war as well. They impeached Trump for not sending weapons fast enough, that Obama had approved.
In every case where Trump was bad, they were worse. They were directly responsible for starting all these wars and they did everything they could to stop Trump from ending any of them. They even sanctioned Trump and told him he could NOT lift sanctions on Russia.
And again, this isn’t even everything that was better about Trump. He got Republicans to admit our wars were stupid. That’s a big deal. What do you get with the rest of them?
Compared to Ron Paul he’s no peace president, compared to the rest of our recent presidents he is, that puts him at about 50/50 in my book and I’d say I made a much better case than you. But whatever, I don’t care very much what opinions people have about anything anymore. Everyone has one, and the rest of that saying.
He pulled the troops out that HE put in. He bombed Somalia more than W and Obama combined. Twist that however you want to meet your criteria of being better than his predecessors. I guess killing is ok as long as you don’t start it.
I didn’t blame Trump for Syria. Don’t put words in my mouth. But Trump left Syria sitting on their oil fields and he imposed draconian sanctions on them for good measure. More people dying but I guess since he didn’t start it….
In regard to the missile strikes Trump wanted to do much worse but had to be talked down by the rabid warmongers he himself hired. He also didn’t want to give Russia notice but again his hired warmongers talked him down from being so idiotic. Read Sy Hersh’s take at The Welt if you want to know the truth. And Trump’s first state visit was to those very head choppers who financed ISIS.
I’m listing the things why Trump’s personality had nothing to do with my take on him. But keep up with your psychoanalyzing.
Trump bombed Afghanistan more than at any time other than the original invasion. His lifting of the rules of engagement led to more civilian deaths than at any time during the war. The drone strike that killed those 10 innocents were a result of Biden keeping them in place. But once again, killing apparently doesn’t matter to you. Trump’s rules of engagement.
I am comparing him to the other scum. And he was just as vicious and killed with impunity just like them.
You conveniently left out the sanctions he imposed. An act of war according to Ron Paul. The maximum pressure campaign against Iran after he dropped out of the nuke deal. He damn near got in a shooting war with them after he ordered their general murdered. But, amazingly, the Trump backers gave him credit for avoiding a war he himself almost started. 50% better? How about the sanctions on Venezuela? The aforementioned Syria?
I could go on too like mentioning him selling out Assange or his creating a new military branch. How about the Abraham Accords and his undying loyalty to Israel?
Spin it how you want. Trump sucked just as bad as the other s.
You’re not even mentioning the Obama Hillary destruction of Libya as a functioning state.
That’s Obama’s most destructive imperialist assault and Libya suffers tragically for it today.
No nations were destroyed under Trump, although he had a very negative effect on US politics.
Because I wasn’t defending either. I’m saying Trump was as bad as his predecessors, nothing more. And nations such as Iran , Venezuela and Syria certainly weren’t helped by Trump’s sanctions. Especially Iran, which trump brags about when he talks about how loyal he was to Israel.
I think that Trump was a disaster domestically, but internationally, the damage caused by Obama and Hillary is far greater than that caused by Trump.
It’d be a debate if it weren’t for Libya, but that tips the scales in a big way.
Operation Inherint Resolve was begun in 2014. Despite the ludicrous and well publicized failure of training Syrian nationals, the operation had eliminated the majority of ISIS territory held before trump took office. At this point, it was massive airstrikes supporting mostly Kurdish fighters. trump introduced US boots on the ground in 2017, massively escalated artillery and airstrikes. Any “territory” ISIS could claim was rubble. trump claimed victory, and, mostly pulled us troops out. However, ISIS, as it is called, remains. Inherent resolve continues under Biden. Your 50% better claim regarding trump is not supported by any kind of fact.
Oh, and “headchoppers” ? Whom do you think liberated more heads, ISIS?, or the 100ooo 155mm arty shells fired into Syria 2017-18?
Should note on the trump 50% better notion … he vetoed the out of Yemen resolution. End of that war was on his desk. Guess that makes it a new war.
The bellicosity and the resulting casualties under Trump were far less than under O’Bomber.
Obama was and is CIA spawned creep.
The bellicosity remained the same, harsher in some cases. It’s hard to know the actual casualty count under any president since we don’t know how many people our sanctions kill. But Trump did Afghanistan, for a stretch, worse than Obama regarding our airstrikes. Plus, those pesky rules of engagement being lessened made killing easier for those airstrikes and our drone campaign there. But no argument about Obama. I don’t have any use for him either.
I don’t think Trump is peacenik, I think Trump was reluctant to send in the troops.
Nothing Trump did compares to the Libya disaster under Obama and Hillary.
Sending in troops isn’t necessary to kill people. We do our work from the skies. There were no troops sent to Libya either. Trump was more than willing to kill making him equally as bad as the rest. Comparing degrees of disasters that occurred under different administrations is hardly a way of proving that one was better than the other. My point is that they are all equally disgusting and nothing Trump did elevates him above the rest or vice versa.
“My point is that they are all equally disgusting ”
Maybe. This is one area where the Democrats are no better than Trump and maybe worse.
I’ve always assumed that Obama was actually a CIA operative, but I hardly ever see that brought up.
His mother and father both seem to have worked for/with the CIA at different times and different capacities.
He went to school at Occidental, apparently well-known as a CIA recruiting spot. He traveled to Pakistan on his Indonesian passport in 1981 (when the US was courting both the regime and various freelance mujahideen groups there to fight in Afghanistan) , and worked for Business International Corporation, noted by its founder’s son to have “provided cover for” CIA employees. Then he gets a smooth — probably “sponsored” by “the right people” — ride through the Ivy League and into politics.
Wayne Madsen literally wrote the book on this one.
He’s very thorough and precise about the sources for his allrgations.
A shorter summary is available here:
It appeared many moons ago
I hate to think what the 2024 “binary choice” will look like.
I can’t imagine voting Republican or Democrat, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Trump run to limit that damage. He’d get the GOP nomination, which would keep the most dangerous and evil likely candidate (DeSantis) away from the White House, and he might even be able to beat the second most dangerous and evil likely candidate (Harris) in the general election. And if it’s Trump vs. Biden to see who gets to serve Trump’s third term, no biggie either way.
Harris won’t be the Dem candidate, IMO.
I don’t see how she could be — nobody liked her when she ran for the 2020 Democratic nomination, and nobody likes her now — but I never underestimate the Democrats’ ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
That last bit is so terribly, painfully true.
It’s their diabolical MO };-)>
there is no electoral choice, voting doesn‘t matter, withdraw your consent refuse to vote.
Sagaar should know by now, NATO members are not allies, they are vassals of the USA. The US is in the process to break the EU in pieces. The USA is the only nation that wanted this war. They started with the Regime change in 2014, before that it was Bush who wanted Ukraine in NATO. Biden did say what the US wants, Regime Change, Putin must go, he refuses to serve American interests, the Russian nation must be weakened so they can not be a competitor for the US unipolar hegemon power. Sagar is not critical where it counts, the USA is at war with Russia. Ukraine and European NATO members are proxies, the USA gives s**t about Europe, recall Nuland, f**** the EU? The USA is thousands of miles away from the old continent and they will leave a trail of blood and tears and rubble in their wake waging a proxy war against Russia in Europe, not on American soil, to get their claws on Russian resources.
This is only providing some missing context so Saagar’s presentation becomes a little more comprehensible, a more complete picture. Much detail is still missing.
Biden is treating the NATO ALLIES LIKE THEY ARE SH*T.
Comments are closed.