So Sudan’s president pardoned the teacher convicted of doing, well, nothing. She spent about a week in jail. Meanwhile…
29 thoughts on “Those Uncivilized Sudanese”
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So Sudan’s president pardoned the teacher convicted of doing, well, nothing. She spent about a week in jail. Meanwhile…
Comments are closed.
It seems like you are trivializing this a little bit. She still has to get out of Sudan alive. That may be a challenge enough.
She’s already back in Britain.
You arrogant frenchman, who are you to call people uncivilized. Go eat some snails and stinky cheese.
Peter. you definitely sound very civilized!!! Go wash your mouth….and stop drinking…
Go to Youtube and type ‘taser.’ Over a hundred people died last year from tasers, which hurt a lot more than forty lashes, and are administered without a court passing sentence or hope of a pardon. And often the crime is nothing more than ‘Minding your own business’ or ‘Asking why you’re being arrested.’
Since I don’t live in Sudan and don’t plan to misname any teddybears if I ever do, this story has zero personal relevance for me. On the other hand, thousands of my fellow Americans are being unjustly tasered, and I often wonder when the cops will get an address screwed up and come to my door and zap me for the crime of taking two seconds too long.
Come on people, you’re being distracted. Your freedom is being stolen here at home, and you’re worried about Sudanese teddy bears? Maybe we are worse than a nation of sheep, because even sheep get nervous when they see their fellow sheep being jolted with a cattle prod.
Matt,
What I suspect is your point is well taken: That a government of a Muslim country can exercise leniency for what some there might consider a capital offense while we here in the effete West dehumanize and detain people indefinitely on grounds of suspicion alone.
One would think that this British teacher, certainly not without all sensitivity to Muslim sensibilities regarding their faith, would know better than to provoke these folks to their entirely predictable reactions. One really needs questions how innocent her naming of the bear in the way she did really was. Might we be witnessing a poorly disguised feminist antipathy to the Muslim faith? Its either that or some kind of death wish. I mean, really, was anyone surprized when the Australian crocodile wrestler was vanquished in the way he was. What’s different here?
John Lowell
The kids in the class named the bear Muhammad, IIRC, because that’s a common name in the area. In case I was unclear, there never should have been any punishment for the teacher or anyone else in this case.
Matt,
“In case I was unclear, there never should have been any punishment for the teacher or anyone else in this case.”
From a Western perspective, perhaps, but ask yourself, would you, a Westerner, if you were a teacher, permit a class of wealthy Muslim kids almost certain to imbibe Enlightenment attitudes more so than their poorer countrymen, to name a toy bear as they did and then put your seal of approval on it. I mean, minimally, there would have to have been a certain consciousness of the risk involved. Au contraire, one might see it entirely just to have you punished for the rank stupidity of it all.
John Lowell
I’m not going to Sudan any time soon, and I do believe that people bear some responsibility for their own well-being when choosing where to visit, work, or live. You have the right to say nasty things, for instance, but you don’t have the right to my assistance should you choose to shout ethnic slurs at people in the street. That said, anyone who violates your rights (e.g., by punching you in the nose) is still in the wrong. Rights + personal responsibility: this is pretty basic libertarianism to me. You have the right to skydive, but not to make me pay for any injuries you may incur; you have the right to eat pure lard, but not to make me pay for your heart medication, etc.
To clarify: I, of course, have the right to assist you in such cases if I wish, but I’ve no obligation to do so. Police or private security guards may have a contractual obligation to fend off the angry mob you have incited, but that’s it. Nonetheless, the angry mob is wrong as soon as it employs coercion to deprive you of your right to free speech.
Why are those who pride themselves for awarding a life sentence to someone for stealing a piece of pizza so upset about an unfair 15-day sentence?
“And why dost thou behold the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, and the beam that is in thine own eye dost not consider?”
Muhammad is certainlly a common name but for people not for objects.As usuall,when It comes to westerners ,what they say must be the truth and nothing but the truth unlike “Arabs and Muslims who lie all times”.I can not waite for the tv appearences,book, and maybe a movie or two!
Why do some people love to make excuses? Excuses. Excuses. Excuses. Can’t you just have the guts to say that punishing a well-meaning school teacher with 15 days in jail and 40 lashes for naming a Teddy Bear, Mohaamed, is an outrage? Yes, I know they did not give her the 40 lashes but they wanted to and only did not because of all the international pressure. Large crowds of rioters turned out in the streets to call for her death. I guess they wanted to give us more proof of their “peaceful religion.” Don’t foget, this is the same government that backs up the Janjaweed militias that have killed over a quater million fellow Muslims simply because they are black.
Stop making excuses for the Islmao Fascists! Some of you are so quick to excoriate religious Christians, Jews, the Western World, etc. But the Islamic radicals are all poor, misunderstood, products of their environment. What rubbish! What we need are more people like the President of France who called them a bunch of “thugs” and won’t put up with this sort of nonsense.
The United States, Britain, France, some of the greatest powers in the world, and we are supposed to grovel and make excuses for these ruthless barbarians? Nonsense I say!
I do agree with you to a degree. It is an outrage. A violation of natural rights. The Muslim world is morally and culturally bankrupt. My heart goes out to the well meaning people in Sudan, such as that teacher. A culture that encourages a mob crowd to form for such a silly reason, calling for this teachers death, is something I cannot fathom. I say thank God for our western culture.
However…I entirely agree with Joe S., focusing on Sudan will be our downfall (or insert any number of countries the “humanitarians” would like to bring their moral crusade too). We are ending up more and more like Sudan, sadly. Our government and foreign policy are more in line with the worst of the Muslim world then anything else.
1) People did say they disagree with what happened to this woman. Nobody made excuses for her awful treatment.
2) The Janjaweed did not kill anyone “simply because they are black.” You have simply got to come to terms with the fact that the world is a lot more complicated and nuanced than you so desperately want it to be.
3) There is no such thing as Islamofascism, currently. Anyone who uses such a phrase for al-Qaeda types is to be dismissed outright as someone incapable of rational (or at least original) thought.
Matt was only pointing out that what the Sudanese did to this woman pales in comparison to the things the United States has done to so many people that we have literally no way to count them.
You cannot generalize about Muslims, who number in the billions, I think. What I am concerned about is the over 100,000 boxcars with shackles inside that have and still are being built by a steel company re contract with your and my Uncle Sam, and ne’er a peep about them from MSM or any of the candidates for Prez, and hardly even on line, AND all the prisons/concentration camps in the USA, FEMA’s or other branch of the feds, waiting for WHO. The Patriot movement think surely for them, and I bet for anyone else who dares to stand up to the final fascism being prepared for us to be serbs. Educate yourself and do something about IT. I am glad that Ron Paul and the Paulers will be marching in Boston on Boston Tea Party Day. With ya in spirit, gracious citizens for justice, freedom, and peace.
Poverty and backwardness are everywhere in the Muslim world and this is what they worry about – a teddy bear.
I think the point nobody is noticing as usual is that the vast majority of Muslims are not like this. It was Muslims from Britain who went to Sudan and got the teacher freed. Salman Rushdie is till in perfect health despite Khomeni’s death sentence — because Muslims won’t carry it out. Every major Muslim group in the has consistently condemned this extremists who get all the press, but there is never any media coverage of that. Go to the websites of the Muslim Public Affairs Council (www.mpac.org) or the Council of American Islamic Relations (www.cair.com) to see for yourself.
Rhett says “the vast majority of Muslims are not like this.” So I guess when they have riots in the streets when the Pope says something they don’t like or when a school teacher gives a teddy bear a name they don’t like, its just the crazy ones who come out into the streets right? All the rational ones just stay home huh?
You should have a look at the Pew Global Attitudes Survey. If the vast majority of Muslims are not like that, why do 70% of Palestinians support suicide bombings?
Why do 70+ % of wingnuts think there is a moral distinction in favour of non-muslims between so called suicide bombings by people who have no other means to resist in a meaningful way and western artillery or air force personnel dropping bombs on civilian areas purely because they are ordered to by their superiors? Or perhaps bulldozer drivers demolishing buildings with women and children trapped inside.
It’s a curious morality on your planet Timmy. Curious indeed.
I’m not saying the vast majority of Muslims are like this. But as I see it, religion ultimately determines everything- culture, art, government, morality, etc, etc. Africa is screwed up, not just because of French and English imperialism (although that definitely plays a part), but because the Muslim religion is metaphysically hollow and morally bankrupt as a religion/philosophy. I’m not saying individual Muslims are necessarily this way, by any means, but you cannot underestimate the effect religion has on EVERYTHING. It ultimately determines where a culture will go.
However, I wish them the best of luck. May they rise up against their oppressive governments, and secure “life, liberty, and property” for themselves. May we do the same.
One fact you seem to overlook or ignore ,whatever the reason,is that Africa is not totally Muslim.You should read more about what happened in Rwanda and see who were implicated in the attracities there and what religion .Check this, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3671464.stm.Also,read more about the Congo,Burundi,etc.if you don’t want to appear onesided person who sees Islam behind every problem in the world.But,do you have a Muslim as one of your best friend because you remind me of those who atack other groupe but would interject that a person of that group is his best buddy!!!
Hold it.
You westerners think from a narrow Western perspective and apply your rules all over the globe. That is imperial arrogance. Cartoons are part of Western Culture. So the rest of us must accept them even when they denigrate a person venerated by a section of the people. You think that naming Teddy Bears after the Prophet is not a terrible thing to do. But people do take offence in Islam as animals are seen as lower than acceptable and some animals are “Haram”. In my country , there are many practices which can each be an object of derision – The Shiva Linga for instance is a phallic symbol which is worshipped by millions of people. I dare any Westerner to say derogatory things about this practice when they are here. For the worshipper , these are sacred objects and need to be seen from that perspective.
You westerners have also learnt your lessons from hard experience.Gollywogs are no longer part of British childhood because they were cariacatures of people of African origin. No self respecting enlightened English person would have them in his or her house.It was not considered offensive to refer to black people as “negroes” in the past but it is no longer acceptable. And look at what happened to James Watson after he accidentally spoke his mind – furious back peddling and a loss of stature in the public eye.
I think you might garner some wisdom from the author (Stewart Lee?) of “Jerry Springer – The Opera”. Lee was interviewed on the BBC show, Hard Talk. about his musical which he said was written to poke fun at the “Christian Myth”. It reportedly has a scene where a pole dancer tries to masturbate Jesus in a napkin. He was asked if he would do the same thing to Islam and he said he would not do that because he was not born into that religion and he would respect the beliefs of others.
In a truly pluralistic society one respects the the rules that others draw for themselves as long as they do not impinge on the rights of individual members of that group or society as a whole. One may not agree to wear the veil but Muslims (including teachers) should be permitted the freedom to wear veils if they so wish.
I have to agree with J LOWELL on this one,she should have known better,especially since she was living in the country for some time.
Me thinks that the lady might be’ mixed up with’ the boys in MI6
or Whitehall is up to something in the Sudan.
Apparently OMAR and his crew didn’t fall for whatever the English were up to this time.
Truth be told 99.9% of the english in foreign lands are usually spies despite their facades
Speaking of ruthless barbarians, the Israelis who kill innocent Palestinians, especially Christians fit the definition nicely.
You are losing the war of ideas, Timmy R.
Ya better think about moving to your beloved homeland you dirty traitor you!
AMERICA FIRST!!
Phil,old buddy, your logic is a bit off. Just because someone supports the State of Israel that does not make them a traitor. I am an American first and foremost. I totally agree with you, America First! Now, I happen to admire the British a great deal, and if I had to live somewhere else that is where I would go, but does that make me a traitor? Why is it that in your twisted brain anyone who supports Israel is a traitor to America?
You are a traitor, just like Benedict Arnold. You use this forum to distort facts and lobby for your favorite country which is not America. You are racist in your tirades against Muslims and Arabs and try to group them together as all bad.
If you have an issue with them, then go fight them yourself and leave the rest of us alone.
And you never answered my question about the racist tone of The Talmud? How can you be so stupid to criticize the Koran and not read your own twisted playbook, which is even worse?
Phil,
I responded to your comments about the Talmud on the other thread, the one about Ron Paul and Iran. I will repeat it. I totally and without exception repudiate anything in the Talmud that is racist against gentiles or anyone else. Now, I call on the Muslims to do the same regarding their holy book, the Quran. Where are all the peaceful Muslims taking to the streets to protest what the radicals have done? The only ones in the streets are the Islamo Fascists who are shouting and screaming for murder and violance.
And again, I reiterate, Jews and Christians have progressed a great deal. But there is still a substantial sum of Muslims who are stuck in a 7th century mentality.
I really do think that all those who said that the woman has to receive 40 lashes are the fanatics of the Muslim religion. I don’t think that the Qur’an says something of a punishment just like that. I have been looking for some other ways to help the people of Sudan like The Emma Academy Project that I have recently visited. They will be building a school in Leer, Sudan.