It’s Hard to Be an Anti-Zionist Jew

It can often be difficult being a Jew and a proponent of individual rights for all when that clashes with the actions of the Jewish state that claims to represent and defend you. For years I have fought to just educate my family members on some basic facts on the founding of Israel and what happened to its original inhabitants — facts that were created before Palestinian terrorism was a concern. British “ethnic Ashkenazi” artist Mike Marcus has taken this to another, more active level in actually moving to Israel, experiencing the occupation himself, and then expressing his outrage through art projects. He was in my neighborhood of Bushwick, Brooklyn recently, pasting up one of his pieces, and one of my neighbors interviewed him for a local art publication. Check out my blurb on local website BushwickBK.com for more info on Mike Marcus, the man who gassed himself (so he could cry).

125 thoughts on “It’s Hard to Be an Anti-Zionist Jew”

  1. That is great that you are educating your family members. Did you educate them about the way in which Jews were massacred by Arab mobs, almost 20 years before the State of Israel ever came into existance, as in Hebron 1929? Did you educate them on how the United Nations voted for a partition plan in 1947 that would have provided for a two-state peaceful solution, and how the Arabs rejected it? Choosing war instead? Did you educate them about the times that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalam ( a relative of Arafat) met with Hitler? Did you educate them about how he and other Arabs supported Hitler’s plan to wipe out the Jews and asked how they could help?

    Yes, you can also educate them about all the terrible things Israel has done too. I don’t deny that. But try and see both sides of the story at least.

    1. what right did european jews have to move to palestine and terrorize hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and land?

    2. They ONLY know those points, Tim, none of which are important to the main question: is the State of Israel justified in stealing the private property and lives of hundreds of thousands of native citizens, and then continuing to oppress them and their millions of descendants? By all decent moral codes, the answer is no.

      For the record, the UN Partition Plan was terrible, and the locals were justified in rebelling against their new, unelected, immigrant rulers. So that is a useless point of propaganda to try to use on me.

      The Israeli-Palestinian problem is ultimately one of individual property rights. You’re not a communist… are you, Tim?

      1. Jeremy,

        Do you also advocate that we give my all the land we stole from Native American Indians? Every square inch of the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand was “stolen” from natives. But that is the way of the world, whether we like it or not. The native American Indians were treat by far a lot worse than the Palestinians. Ever heard of the “Trail of Tears?” 1/3 of the entire Cherokee tribe were wiped out on it. And that is just one among dozens of other examples. But I don’t hear you saying that we should give back all that land and have all the white people move back to Europe. Why not? Haven’t we stolen the land? Should we not just pick up and leave and give the land back to the decendents of the people we stole it from? No, only Israel is held to this special standard, isn’t that true?

        1. You are wrong. “Every inch” of land was not stolen from the natives, as the vast majority of the continent was uninhabited, and much of it was legitimately purchased. All of which is beside the point, which is that neither I nor any reasonable person advocates a wholesale return of land to its former owners, either in Texas or Tel Aviv. If the land is vacant, then by all means it should be returned. If it has been sold and resold and parceled out and built upon, then what I advocate is just compensation.

          Another main difference between the Native Americans and the Palestinians is that the former original owners/residents are long dead, while the latter original owners/residents are very much still alive, many with the actual deeds to their land. To make it worse, Israel has for decades prevented Palestinians from making a decent life even in their refugee camps. Furthermore, the confiscation continues to this very day.

          Now you could make the argument that I have just inadvertently advocated that Israel continue the status quo until all the Arabs are completely demoralized, decimated, run-off, and delegitimized in order to finally claim all the land for themselves, as was done to the Native Americans. But together with your nonchalant observation that theft and murder “is the way of the world,” you wouldn’t be a very good authority on deciding right and wrong, would you? You just defend the side that wins by deploying tautologies. Good work.

          What else you got?

        2. Jeremy: Tim R is woefully consistent in failing to point out that the practice of coerced dispossession of homes, farms, and access to water is continuing now and that the Wall of Shame that encroaches on Palestinian territory is not a historical artifact. Tim R is a studious refusenik when it comes to facts that occur daily. His pristine ignorance is phenomenal.

        3. Tim, you have made great progress. In contrast to most of your buddies you at least openly admit that the Jews stole the land from the Palestinian people, although of coursen they could not have done withut help from their British and American emperialist coharts. It is unfortunate that there were never enough American Indians (numerically)to seriously contest the theft of their homeland by the English invaders. However, the same cannot be said of the land that was stolen from Mexico during the 1830 war against Mexico. If you will notice, the Hispanic people are slowly reclaiming the land that was stolen from them by physically reoccupying it. I predict the Plestinian people will one day do the same thing and will reoccuply the land the Jewish squatters moved into following World War 2.

        4. I see this in every spot on the internet where I visit: one or two Israeli apologists who stick to that site like their life depended on it. They post inane comments trying to justify what Israel does, or attempt to demonstrate equivalency to some past event that bears little resemblance to the colonization and occupation of Palestine. It’s all just an attempt at obfuscation; smoke and mirrors to justify Israel’s destruction of the Palestinians.

          That there is a concerted effort on the part of Israel is no longer in question. The previously denied phenomenon of organized groups of zionists who seek out and attack online discussions related to Palestine has now come out in the open, with Israel now openly admitting that they send out keyboard warriors to do their dirty work online. I’m convinced some of these people are paid, since they seem to be available at all hours everyday to add their ridiculous spin to the news.

          I wonder what name “Tim R.” goes by on other sites? Or does he just confine himself to AWC? You never see the same names, but you always see the same talking points, usually verbatim.

          It’s all a bunch of crass blather, and after this latest escalation laying bare the criminal intent that Israel harbors towards the Palestinians, they will begin to panic as they realize their propaganda no longer works. Kowtowing people into allowing Israel to “protect itself” because of Holocaust guilt is no longer an effective tactic. The zionists will panic, and that’s when they will be at their most dangerous. The Israeli enterprise needs to be shut down immediately at this juncture; all Israeli political leaders need to be jailed and put on trial to determine their guilt, while simultaneously a UN body needs to go in and take over the daily administration of Israel until a one state solution can be worked out.

          Israel presents the biggest threat to the world right now and that threat needs to be neutralized before they are allowed to escalate further.

        5. “The previously denied phenomenon of organized groups of zionists who seek out and attack online discussions related to Palestine has now come out in the open, with Israel now openly admitting that they send out keyboard warriors to do their dirty work online. I’m convinced some of these people are paid, since they seem to be available at all hours everyday to add their ridiculous spin to the news.”

          Do you have proof of this, Abraham

        6. Well – speaking of lost and acquired lands – as a citizen of Russia I would completely support Israel in it’s policies, as soon as we return to the status quo of Jalta – i.e. Russia gets control of territories, including Eastern Germany, Middle Europe, Middle Asia – and then Israel gets full support. Would that be a reasonable deal? I feel VERY unsafe with NATO so close to my home…

        7. Israel recruits ‘army of bloggers’ to combat anti-Zionist Web sites

          “The Immigrant Absorption Ministry announced on Sunday it was setting up an “army of bloggers,” to be made up of Israelis who speak a second language, to represent Israel in “anti-Zionist blogs” in English, French, Spanish and German”

          http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056648.html

    3. I found this article:
      http://www.eaec.org/newsletters/2008/vol_8/showdown-in-jerusalem-digest.htm

      Our leaders are zionist, we live in a police-state dictatorship. Our country is being prepared for an American Genocide. These people have hundreds of trillions of dollars. Martial law is supposedly coming. I saw a video of one of them saying its going to happen, and they dont mind him saying so because they dont care. I believe after the financial collapse, wwIII will come from an Iran vs Israel conflict. They own both regimes. Then, all the regimes they own will get drawn in and millions of people will die. The USA will come under attack possibly by nuclear attack, separating the states into 5 separate states of 10 and political activists, dissidents, whistle-blowers, people who dont agree with the official 9/11 stor, people filling the prison systems, will all be taken to camps which are already in place with ovens. I pray for peace on earth.

  2. Get used to it. I’m an atheist, non-zionist hebraic, have less militant relatives, a few
    oddly enough regressing to more militant. I’m sure I bother the hell out of them.
    I also married outside judaism.

    Have confidence in yourself, that you are right, and not just following the herd.

  3. It is no problem for me to being ethnically Jewish and yet outspokenly anti-Zionist. No more of a problem than being a loyal American and yet hating our imperialism. It is a small person indeed who lets some group solidarity outweigh his humanity.

  4. What nonsense about the “Grand Mufti of Jerusalem” and his inquiries to “Hitler”. Most of Europe was unaware of what was happening to the Jewish population of Europe until after the WWII, and America certainly did not know anything about it, let alone the “Grand Mufti of Jerusalem” who belonging to the “inferior” race, i.e. a Semite, had everything to fear for, had he known about Hitler’s ideas, let alone collaborating with Hitler. I had heard from Zionist propaganda machine about a Nazi Germany official meeting an ethnic Palestinian leader, but neither that Palestinian was the “Grand Mufti of Jerusalem”, nor the Nazi Official was Hitler himself. Tim. R. instead of propagating those two to such dizzying heights you would do yourself a favor if you actually pursued those few Americans who actually knew about what Hitler was doing, knew about his ideology, and put themselves at the services of that heinous monster. For example you could start with the Bush family, and follow on to the Ford family. And you can follow that up with those who enriched themselves by facilitating the crimes of Nazi Germany, and went on to rule America and the American industry. That would be the right path, not the path to the “Grand Mufti of Jerusalem”, who had no clue that someday he would feature so prominently in a Zionist propaganda, where he had played no part whatsoever.

    1. Next time you hear Zionists blathering their “Grand Mufti of Jerusalem” propaganda line, just remind them of the Haavara Agreement between the Jewish Agency (an official executive agency in then Palestine) and the Nazi regime of Germany.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

      From the Wikipedia link:

      The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine. While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to give up most of their possessions to Germany before departing. Those assets could later be obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods. Approximately 50,000 Jews emigrated to Palestine under this agreement.

      Nex time you notice somebody trying to manipulate you to be complicit in genocide in Palestine, remember: Zionism is built on lies, though and through.

  5. Tim R., “Do you also advocate that we give my all the land we stole from Native American Indians? Every square inch of the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand was “stolen” from natives.”

    Nonsense. “We”didn’t take any of the land from any natives in those countries. Much of the land in North American and Australia and New Zealand has never been justly claimed by anyone, EVER. The American Indians only occupied a very small portion of the continent. If any of them can actually make a clear case that their ancestor had a particular piece of land stolen, then restitution should be made, but that is highly unlikely.

    There are current Palestinians alive today that have had their land stolen, and the State of Israel continues to steal more land.

    And why do any Palestinians bear any blame for not accepting a partition plan that was forced on their ancestors?

    Start thinking of property as all the property of individuals, unjustly acquired property or unowned property. Stop thinking of Palestinian land and Jewish Israeli land. Avoid collectivism, and right and wrong will be much clearer.

      1. Jeremy Sapienza and John Delano claim that my analogy to the native American Indian is faulty because most of the land was empty and was never claimed by anyone. Shame on you for saying such a thing. Go and read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown and then tell me that North America was largely uninhabited.

        Why can’t you just be consistant? If you want Israel to give back every square inch of land then fine, but in order to be consistant you should find a native American family, give them the deed to your house, and then pack up and move back to Europe ok?

        1. two wrongs make a right… might makes right…

          so it would be okay with you, if i were mighty enough, if i hunted you down and told you to get out of dodge because i was taking over your setup.

          and if you resisted, i would be within my rights to kill you, on the spot, because i had the might.

          good enough.

        2. meanwhile, maybe you can tell us how israel’s actions square with the benevolence in kristol’s “benevolent global hegemony”…

          maybe you can tell us how israel’s actions square with tikkun olam.

          maybe you can tells us how israel is to become “the light unto nations”… unless possibly you’re talking about a few milliseconds of light from nuclear fission.

          your support for israel is leading you into a moral swamp… unless, of course, we factor in ashkenazi supremacism, at which point the concept of justice in inoperative because you’re slaughtering subhumans… aka, anyone who’s not jewish.

          wonderful philosophy

        3. Ah, see Tim, you are now obviously a liar and propagandist. I already said quite clearly above that I do NOT think “every inch” of land should be “given back,” for reasons I have already elaborated. So I please ask you again — what ELSE you got? Because you are not allowed to just repeat the same easily underminable fallacious points.

          As for the native Americans, I do not doubt they were treated horrifically. I only denied that “every square inch” was stolen from them. Much of it was purchased, much of it was unclaimed. And Wounded Knee was not even a land grab — it was a chasing down and extermination of “troublesome” natives. Your heart bleeds for these long-dead people, but you tell now-living Palestinians to shut up and quit whining and learn to love Israel’s continued theft of their property and willful crushing of their ability to make a living.

          You need to make up your mind: is genocide good or bad? Or maybe it just depends on if a Jew is the perp?

      2. Tim R,
        Strange that you should mention Wounded Knee – that is what this attack upon Gaza reminds me of. In 1890, the American Indians were no longer even a remote threat, but a symbolic group of them were slaughtered anyway to satisfy the ingrained racism of the white settlers and just because the Army could get away with it. The Army awarded 20 Congressional Medals of Honor for the troops who took active part in the massacre of mostly disarmed, half-starved natives. Wonder how many medals will be awarded by the IDF?

      3. Tim R. said: “If you want Israel to give back every square inch of land then fine, but in order to be consistant . . .”

        In order to be consistent with your red herring? Nice (desperate) try.

        Few people are advocating return of “every square inch” of land to the Palestinians. The theft of the Palestinians’ property in 1948 is brought up as a necessary point to understand the Palestinian plight. Most, as you choose to ignore, want a return to the pre-1967 borders. Most want Israel to actually become the democracy it claims to be instead of the racist, colonialist, apartheid state that it is.

        And when you voice your concern about my use of “most”, pointing out that the rest will continue to fight, you are wrong. When the vast majority of Palestinians are returned to lives of dignity, with the ability to trade and move freely AND DEVELOP THEIR OWN DEFENSES like everyone else without the need to smuggle them, then the few remaining extremists will be ostracized to the point of vanishing.

    1. Start thinking of property as all the property of individuals, unjustly acquired property or unowned property.

      That’s the problem with neocons and their allies/enablers. They are incapable of respecting (or indeed even fully grasping the concept of) individual rights, to include private property rights, because they believe in die Staat ueber Alles, whether that State is fascist, socialist, communist, or “democratic.” The needs of the State (the collective), in their minds, ALWAYS trumps individual rights.

    2. While not imperative to this debate on the vile actor that Israel has become, the historical record does hold that the Cherokee and other nations were systematically dispossessed from their historical lands.

      Leaving aside a critique of the, at the time, novel (and vile as applied here) idea that a written contract supported by courts and enforced by guns should muster a superior claim, the contracts agreed upon were simply broken wholesale out of convenience. The dispossessed people were then put to the sword, driven from their lands and settlements, confined to reservations not unlike that which has been done to the long suffering people of Palestine, then starved and systematically murdered in much the same fashion. Colonial settler projects draw upon pre-existing models which are as ancient as humanity itself.

      The idea that a victimized people now shouts down criticism of the treatment of it’s own victims, is murderously disingenuous. The genocide now being conducted against Gazans must be opposed.

  6. It definitely is hard to be an anti-Zionist Jew as the Zionists have led a strategic and successful campaign to capture mainstream Jewish organizations, polarize their community, and marginalize secular non-Zionist Jewish voices. This is an old struggle that goes back a century. Ultra-nationalists of all stripes have followed this recipe positing their people’s choice in existential messianic terms, while targeting those deemed traitors to capture the very identity of a people. It’s long passed time that this malevolent holdover from the past century was rolled back.

    1. I’ve even heard American Zionist spokescreatures publicly deny the Jewishness of prominent American Jews who have dared to defy the AIPAC/B’nai Brith/JDL party line.

  7. Lets not forget the Nazi’s rounded up gays as well. Gays have been persecuted as much as jews but no one asserts we need a homeland for gays so they can in peace. Israel was a terrible idea from the start. Forget your jewishness, like all religions it is just a farce based on ignorance.

    1. Sure they have occupied their own homeland…it is called San Francisco!! LOL

      (Sorry, I couldn’t resist that one)

    2. “Forget your jewishness, like all religions it is just a farce based on ignorance.”

      Ridiculous, offensive comments like this do nothing but aggravate the situation.

      1. OK, what was meant was NATIONALISTIC religion I guess.

        It’s SO BIZARRA to imagine all-mighty God, that benefit some NATIONALITY. It’s even funny to imagine all-mighty God to benefit one specie (i.e. humans only).

  8. Then just quit being a jew. If the Vatican and Pope were butchering an impoverished neighbor, then quit being a roman catholic.

  9. Why should it be particularly difficult to be an “anti-Zionist Jew”?

    All that is required is an allegiance to the Truth; a decision that Truth is the *most* important of ALL values.

    Once again, the theological issue is simply being completely disregarded here as if it is of no consequence whatsoever.

    Once it is understood that the Doctrine of “resurrection” is a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’–once it is understood that Gentiles in one life may very well be ‘raised from the dead’ as Jews in another life; that Muslims in one life may be ‘raised from the dead’ as (religious) Jews or Christians in another life; that men may be ‘raised from the dead’ as women, and vice versa; that those who are rich may be ‘raised from the dead’ to be poor and vice versa…

    Once all of these things are widely understood, what, *possibly* could be the rationale for what is currently going on in Gaza or any other instance of inter-personal violence?

    But the media and the religious ‘authorities’ are doing *everything* they can *possibly* do to PREVENT this understanding from being widely disseminated…

    Under the assumption that it would do no good, that it is utterly *irrelevant* to this conflict.

    On the contrary, it is the very FOUNDATION of the conflict between Zionist-Crusader civilization and Islamic civilization; which, ultimately, may very well turn out to be mutually self-annihilating because of the efforts of both the media officials and the religious ‘authorities’ to preserve their own economic interests.

  10. How easy was it for Gernans to be antiNazi.
    Most Americans are proTorture and anything else the pro regime media tells them.

  11. The biggest crime is that the US is involved in foreign territorial disputes at all, let alone giving one side undeserved, and unlimited, financial and military support. Makes me want to vomit every year at tax time…

    And some wonder why the Arab world ‘hates us’.

  12. One person here rhetorically asked if we Americans should give back land to the Indians. Some of us Americans have done this. Because we value justice and a symbolic gesture
    more than materialistic gain.

  13. Tim R advocates a double standard. One set of rules for people he approves of and another for ones he doesn’t. He says that the Palestinians should just get over it. They lost. But by the same logic shouldn’t the jews just get over the holocaust? And does the successful reduction of Native American people actually make the dispossession of Palestinians in the here and now ok? If any action or activity that occurred in the past justifies current action, then why not bring back slavery as an example? Or human sacrifice? Of course those two examples are absurd. But it’s equally absurd to cite past injustices as an excuse for current ones, is it not?

    1. One set of rules for people he approves of and another for ones he doesn’t.

      A key philosophical plank in three powerful forces guiding American politics today: 1) American Exceptionalism, 2) Neoconservatism, and 3) American Evangelical “Christianity.”

    2. Im sure he has the same fate in mind for the palestinians hence his constant referral to The Natives

  14. For five thousand years the Jews have been going places, settling in, doing well (for themselves and everyone else), and then one day finding it necessary to run for their lives. Egypt: run for your lives! Rome: run for your lives! Europe in the dark ages: run for your lives! Renaissance Europe: run for your lives! Modern Europe: run for y… next stop Auschwitz! Do we see a pattern here? The Jews, with all their intellectual talent, wail “Anti-semitism!”, and the discussion stops. “Blaming the victim” they call it, and the discussion stops. Too obscene a question in the aftermath of the holocaust, and the discussion stops. But the pattern is there, as is the behavior, and the question remains.

    For an answer to the question see “Concerning the Jews”, by Mark Twain.

    In 1917, two powerful European factions — the power elite of the British Empire and the leadership of the World Zionist Organization(WZO) — committed to a plan to give Palestine to the Jews. The Arabs who lived there, who had lived there for 70 generations and more, peacefully, side by side with the Jews, as in the other Arab lands, who composed ninety-five percent of the population, would be… dealt with: beaten, humiliated, dispossessed, exiled, disappeared, killed,…whatever. They were, after all, just wogs, and couldn’t be allowed to stand in the way of progress.

    (At this point, if I was a religious jew, in the bitter aftermath of the holocaust, wailing to the heavens “God, how could you let this happen?”, I could easily imagine my Jewish God responding, “Don’t complain. It is after all just exactly what you’re doing to the Arabs of Palestine.” But then, I’m not a religious jew, just a jew.)

    When 350 million Arabs (or 1.2 billion Muslims) achieve modernity, the Zionists will be held to account. Whether they and their adversaries burn in nuclear fire, or we all get a taste of the horror when the Zionists implement “The Sampson Option”, only time will tell. It’s a damn shame, and a waste. The jews have so much to offer. But who will intervene to halt their five-thousand year addiction to attempted suicide?

    1. Jeff, you are correct. Part of this problem is the idea of a “Jew” being some sort of racial identity, as opposed to a religious one. Ample evidence exists showing that Ashkenazi Jews have absolutely no historical or blood connection to Israel or the middle east for that matter. They are the Khazar people from the Caucases region of Georgia and Ukraine that converted some 1300 years back. They have not connection to the original Hebrew people. Sadly, most people aren’t aware that Judaism was a prosthelatized religion just like Christianity and Islam, and yet somehow they like to maintain their “exclusive club” along racial lines (whereas Christianity and Islam welcome pretty much anyone regardless of race or ethnicity)

      There is rampant racism in Israel even towards the Sephardic jews (not just Palestinians), who actually may have some connection ancestorally to the region. They are often looked down upon in Israel today, and being heavily outnumbered by Ashkenazi Jews does not help their cause.

      Check out http://www.jackbernstein.org

      This gets back to my original point. Being a “Jew” has more to do with ethnic/racial identity then it does faith. This is why when shit goes down in Israel or anywhere else for that matter and it involves Jews, immediately ALL JEWS are grouped into one category. Afterall, they are an exclusive club, and Ashkenazi Rabbis have made sure of that. And so the cycle you are talking about repeats itself.

      There are many other factors, or course, but this idea that Ashkenazi Jews actually have some claim to Palestinian land and their wealthy elitist Zionist elements in western countries fully support this is leading them down the suicidal path again.

      This is why it is hard for a Gentile to believe the “I am a Jew and I don’t support Israel” line. People might believe this more if you said, I am an American who happens to have Ashkenazi ancestors who practiced the religion of Judaism, but I myself am atheist, or something to that effect. It might actually stimulate some conversation and break the indoctrination that Zionists have successfully imposed on the Gentiles and Jews of western countries.

      1. Now I can understand where the suicidal patterns shown by modern “state” of Ukraine come from… Also explains well why Ukraine is very anti-semitic territory (US propaganda have brain washed American people about oppression of Jews during the time of Russian Empire, neglecting the fact, that the locality of these events was Ukraine and other Western territories, but nowhere at the current Russia territory – I agree completely that these territories need to be controlled better then they were then and are now).

        I need to admit that my father was also born on the Ukraine territory, therefore…. I have full right to say that Israel is NOT a good idea.

  15. Zionism was the product of imperialstic scheme to hegemonize the Middle-East.Before the first Zionist conference in Bazel in 1897,ther was no such thing as a Jewish people,there were German Jews French Jews Dutch Jews and so on.This fact was brought up by the Israeli historian,Shlomo Sand,Prof. of history at Tel Aviv University,in his book,”When and How the Jewish People Invented”.His argument was that,” the idea of a Jewish nation-whose need for a safe heaven was originally used to justify the founding of the state of Israel-is a myth invented little more than a century ago”.He further argues that Jews had thought of themselves as Jews sharing a common religion, but at the turn of the century Zionist Jews challanged this idea and started creating a national history by inventing the idea that Jews existed as a people seperate from their religion.Zionist’s distortion of history didn’t stop at that,it went on to changing the idea of Jerusalem.Before ,holy places were seen as places to long for ,not to be live in.For 2000 years Jews stayed away from Jerusalem not because they couldn’t return but because their religion FORBADE them from returning until the messiah came.Dr.Sand tackles the taboo of EXILE by going back to Roman history to discover that Romans did not exile people.In fact he dicovered that Jews in Palestine were overwhelmingly peasants and all evedance suggests they stayed on their lands.As to who are the indigenous people of Palestine,Dr.Sand’s answer was the Palestinians who converted at at a later date to Islam.Early Zionist leaders were aware of this fact including Ben Gurian who believed that Palestinians were the descendants of the area’s original Jews.They believed the Jews had later converted to Islam.Those wishing to broaden their knowldge on this matter should refer to this book.

  16. Tim R. wrote: “That is great that you are educating your family members. Did you educate them about the way in which Jews were massacred by Arab mobs, almost 20 years before the State of Israel ever came into existance, as in Hebron 1929?”

    Tim R.: Tell us what you know about the Irgun’s massacre at Deir Yassin just before the end of the British Mandate in 1948? Or the atrocities at Haifa? I mean, if you’re going to wield the fallacy of collective guilt, you should be aware that axe can swing both ways.

    1. Your point about the massacre Deir Yassin is well taken! However my aim was to show that there is blame to go around on both sides. Stop simply blaming Israel for everything.

      1. why cant you tell us what it is that justifies europeans moving to palestine and terrorizing people from their land?

  17. A. Noaman: Your remarks remind me of a group called True Torah Jews, who run a website called Jews Against Zionism: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com. They make many similar arguments that Zionists are essentially usurpers. It’s a very interesting site. They also go into the early Nazi influence in promoting Zionism.

  18. Until 1920, when the Brits and French defeated the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs were a subordinate people, as were the middle eastern Jews. The Brits and French held out the prospect of independance to both sides. The Arabs responded: it all belongs to us, and to us alone.

    The big achievements of 89 years of Arab independant statehood: 1)extermination/expulsion of subhuman populations of Arab-Lands Jews, Yahdzis, Assyrians, Maronites, Copts, Fur—some of these are still a work in progress. 2)alliance with every mass murdering regime/ideology of the 20th century, including Nazis, Stalinism, Khomenism.

    The Arabs of Gaza spend their days, marching and chanting for “Death, Death, Death”, lobbing missiles over the Israeli border, and cheering when Jews or Christians are killed. When the return ordinance arrives, it’s a great injustice, war crime, etc.

    No Arab will ever be persuaded by the photos of bombed Arab children, that war is a bad thing. An hour after this war is over, they will all be wroking flat out to start the next war.

  19. “Despite the important role of Jews among the Bolsheviks, most Jews were not Bolsheviks before the Revolution. However, Jews were prominent among the Bolsheviks, and once the Revolution was underway, the vast majority of Russian Jews became sympathizers and active participants.

    Jews were particularly visible in the cities and as leaders in the army and in the revolutionary councils and committees. For example, there were 23 Jews among 62 Bolsheviks in the All-Russian Central Executive Committee elected at the Second Congress of Soviets in October, 1917. Jews were leaders of the movement and to a great extent they were its public face.

    Their presence was particularly notable at the top levels of the Cheka and OGPU (two successive acronyms for the secret police). Here Slezkine provides statistics on Jewish overrepresentation in these organizations, especially in supervisory roles, and quotes historian Leonard Shapiro’s comment that “anyone who had the misfortune to fall into the hands of the Cheka stood a very good chance of finding himself confronted with and possibly shot by a Jewish investigator.”

    During the 1930s, Slezkine reports, the secret police, now known as the NKVD, “was one of the most Jewish of all Soviet institutions”, with 42 of the 111 top officials being Jewish. At this time 12 of the 20 NKVD directorates were headed by ethnic Jews, including those in charge of State Security, Police, Labor Camps, and Resettlement (deportation).

    The Gulag was headed by ethnic Jews from its beginning in 1930 until the end of 1938, a period that encompasses the worst excesses of the Great Terror.

    They were, in Slezkine’s remarkable phrase, “Stalin’s willing executioners”.

    Slezkine appears to take a certain pride in the drama of the role of the Jews in Russia during these years. Thus he says they were

    “among the most exuberant crusaders against ‘bourgeois’ habits during the Great Transformation; the most disciplined advocates of socialist realism during the ‘Great Retreat’ (from revolutionary internationalism); and the most passionate prophets of faith, hope, and combat during the Great Patriotic War against the Nazis”.

    Sometimes his juxtapositions between his descriptions of Jewish involvement in the horror of the early Soviet period and the life styles of the Jewish elite seem deliberately jarring. Lev Kopelev, a Jewish writer who witnessed and rationalized the Ukrainian famine in which millions died horrible deaths of starvation and disease as an “historical necessity” is quoted saying “You mustn’t give in to debilitating pity. We are the agents of historical necessity. We are fulfilling our revolutionary duty.”

    http://www.vdare.com/misc/051105_macdonald_stalin.htm

    1. Let me guess, Iosef Stalin according to “your sources” was also Jewish, as is the case with revisionist rationalization of Nazi crimes against my people(Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist as well as others).

  20. The Israelis believed that those Arabs who remained after 1948 could be acclimated to peaceful coexistence with non-Arab populations. It was a mistake. Arabs can’t live peacefully with other Arabs, and can’t live at all with non-Arabs. The problems are 1)their social organizations are rigidly heirarchal, 2)all social relations are mediated by violence, and 3)intellectual flexibility is understood by them as weakness or apostasy.

    Here in America, we’ve had to create a national police agency—the Department of Homeland Security— just for Arabs. And here, they’re only a tiny part of the population.

    The Arabs mindset only allows for one of two possible solutions to the Arab-Israeli conflict. First, all of the Jews must be eliminated. Second, all of the Arabs must be eliminated. If the Israelis had driven all of the Arabs across the Jordan River in 1948, today there would be peace. Not a warm peace— something more like Greece-Turkey— but something with which everyone could live.

    I expect that we will all regret the day, when we allowed Arabs to settle in First World countries, if we don’t already.

    1. what gave europeans the right to move to palestine and terrorize hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and land?

    2. JJ Doyle,

      Well Said! Now be prepared for some folks on this site to start insulting you with childish name-calling and insults. Don’t worry, ad hominum attacks are what people without substance always resort to.

    3. You have shown your true colors with your vulgar, hate filled rant against all Arabs. How do you know the mindset of all Arabs? Do you have a special pipeline into the hearts and minds of all Arabs? I know for a fact that what you have written about all Arabs is nothing but a pact of filthy, malignant lies. I have a number of Arab friends and they are some of the most generous, honest, kind, and decent indivuals I know. The only difference between you and the Jew Haters is the group of people you choose to hate.

      1. The generalized statements by JJ Doyle that represent his hatred of Arabs speaks volumes. With such unbalanced statements regarding ‘Arabs’, the question is, why is he on an anti-war blog? If he believes he is defending Israel, he fails to recognise that Israel is not benefitting from its wars.

        The Israeli tactic of using brutal (and ruthless) military force to deter acts of retaliation has been long established and has failed to prevent acts of retaliation.

        This policy was implemented formally through ‘The Dagan Plan’ (Author: Reserve General Meir Dagan ) and officially initiated through ‘Operation Justified Vengence’, conceived by Israeli Defence Force Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Shaul Mofaz and implimented under the Sharon government, July 2001.

        Israel does not recognise that by surviving the assault, Hamas has gained political influence and sympathy just as Hezbollah attained after the Lebanon War, 2006. After 60 years of conflict, Israel has not learned that there is no military solution. Their brutality merely empowers their opponents.

        A sincere effort to achieve a peace agreement is in the security interests of Israel. The Israeli policy of indefinitely extending the so-called ‘peace process’ allowing more acquisition of Palestinian land through illegal settlements may backfire with serious consequences for Israel. I would argue that if Israel continues this policy, it will truly face an existential threat.

        Again I say, Wake up Israel!

  21. Who gave Pakistanis the right to live in Britain? If the Arabs deserve a chance to vote on whether or not the Jews shall remain in Palestine, then Englishmen deserve the right to vote on whether or not Pakistanis remain in Bradford, and Americans deserve the right to vote on Dearborn.

    1. are pakistanis terrorizing hundreds of thousands of brits from their homes and land, and penning the refugees up in concentration camps, and bombing those camps?

      1. Actually, yes! Look at the the recent terrorist attacks in Britain and the terrorist plots that were foiled. Most of them are committed by Pakistani Muslim immigrants. If Great Britain has any sense and wants to remain “Great” she better smartan up and start restricting her immigration policies. (Same goes for the United States, France. Etc)

        I know I know. I’m a racist and an “Islamophobe.” Just save it. I’ve heard it before.

        1. Actually the London bombings were almost certainly a joint Mossad/ MI6 operation Timmy blamed on Pakistani muslims who thought they were part of a practice drill.

          That you agree with this racist JJDoyle doesn’t surprise. It’s the same sort of garbage that comes out of Aryan Nation, the KKK etc.

          You should be ashamed of yourself.

        2. you are saying that pakistanis are terrorizing brits into concentration camps and bombing the concentrations camps?

          that’s not true.

          but, by your line of reasoning, if it was true, it would be okay because the pakistanis were mighty enough to do it, and besides that, the europeans did it to the american indians.

  22. .
    we have to assume that the zionist ringleaders are not stupid… psychopathic racists, some of them, yes… stupid, no.

    we have to assume it’s beginning to dawn on some of them that israel was one of the dumbest ideas ever.

    so what factions, motivated by what motives, would develop within zionist leadership?

    how bout one faction that’s been using the holocaust persecution myth to grab power… but that’s about the extent of their concern for jews or israel… they’re just using jews and israel as cover for grabbing control of the world… and they will probably be willing to sacrifice israel if the destruction of israel would become a new persecution myth that can be exploited to start the next cycle… this in view of the fact that the holocaust myth seems to be fraying pretty bad around the edges.

    how bout another faction that sees israel as the ultimate jewish refuge of last resort… and israel must be preserved even if their protector, america, is sacrificed in the process?

    another faction: radical believers in the jewish myth, who would commit nuclear suicide rather than live in a world without (a) israel and (b) their dreams of ashkenazi supremacism.

    how bout yet another faction, that doesnt give a hoot about israel, jews, judaism, or a jews-only refuge, but only wants to stack up enough loot to hide out until the dust settles from the peak oil/global warming commotion… hide out and have enough loot left over to buy dominance after the dust settles?

    here’s the most intriguing possibility: what if there’s a faction who really arent jews at all, but are instead supposed fellow travelers who finally figured out the radical jewish MO, and are determined to give radical jews enough rope to hang themselves, and are egging the radicals on until they do hang themselves?

    .

    let’s assume for the sake of argument that zionist leadership reaches a consensus, including the realization that israel was a dumb idea, including realization that israel is bad for jews…

    if the radicals give up their dreams of global hegemony, if they give up on israel and israel’s function as a refuge of last resort… then what happens?

    seems like these post-zionists would have a couple main priorities:

    first, they must successfully deny responsibility for the catastrophe they’ve created…

    second, they must stack up enough loot to buy refuge someplace other than israel, as berezovsky has done in london.

    and third, they must restrain suicidal zionist diehards from touching off a global samson option.

  23. .
    this is liable to be the end of the line for the deathwish christians, too.
    they’ve been rabid supporters of this operation, and whatever happens, up to and including global nuke war, it’s a very very very long shot that jesus is gonna suck anyone up out of their socks, which should discredit deathwish christians once and for all.

    seems unlkely that the influence of deathwish christian theology on american politics can survive much longer… unless that influence is manufactured by the zionist media.

    the odd thing is this: zionists dont seem to be bothered by the slime content of deathwish christian philosophy, based as it is on the premise jews that will be exterminated in the deathwish christian end times.

    the israelis continue continue to slobber approval on deathwish christians, knowing exactly what the deathwish christians intend… it’s not much of a stretch to imagine deathwish christians committing mass extermination of jews —and every other non-christian within reach— believing that they are only acting as “the hand of god”.

    one sickness piled on another.

  24. control of information is vital, according to doc aumann. …the bad thing about secrets is this: if you act on secret information, your adversaries can figure out what you know by watching you.

    “If one player does manage to access information about their rivals and has some form of strategic advantage therefore, what is the best way to utilise this knowledge?

    “If this situation arose, would playing your hand to gain short-term benefit reveal that you did actually know more than you were letting on?

    “For the player who does not have the information they would like, could they discover anything about the player’s position by reviewing the strategies and decisions made by that player in the past?”

    Nobel Prize Winners aumann schelling

    none of this seems to be my problem.

  25. I get the impression the censor here at antiwar is viewing your material from your blog and probably doesn’t like it for whatever reason.

    I’ve had the same puzzling thing happen to me, and that’s what I’ve come up with.

    They should really focus on the comments here.

  26. Would that the Native American inhabitants of North and South American been armed with the sophisticated weapons of that era so they could have repulsed the European colonizers as they stepped out of their boats onto shore.

    Unfortunately, those who welcomed Columbus soon succumbed to disease, slavery and the sword, while the remainder lacked the resources to fight back successfully.

    Similarly, were Hamas equipped with sophisticated weaponry Israel might well be forced to negotiate and reach settlement. It is precisely their overwhelming conventional military superiority that lulls the Israeli government into the false sense that they can impose a unilateral “final solution” on the Palestinian people.

    Given the logic of TimR and JJ Doyle, I don’t understand why they don’t come right out and endorse unequivocally such a “final solution”. If they have no compunction about the massacre of women and children, then by all means why not kill all Palestinians and have done with it? Now’s not the time for niceties, surely. If one, two or a hundred dead Palestinian children is acceptable, why not all of them, and their parents, too? Let’s see a show of real Zionist courage and have done with it. Is this not, after all, what the “Greater Israel” crowd lusts after?

    1. On 14 May 1948, when Ben Gurion declared the creation of the State of Israel, he refused to define its borders and compared this to the refusal of the original 13 American states to define the U.S. borders and its subsequent expansion to 50 states from the Atlantic to the Pacific.15 In 1952 he stated that the state “has been resurrected in the western part of the land of Israel.”16 He said more explicitly – “We have set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion.”17 Moshe Dayan, as Chief of Staff of the Israeli army, said on the Israeli radio on 12 February 1952,

      1. On January 16, 2009 a Palestinian resister fired a Grad into Sderot in response to Israel’s undaunted, ongoing expansion. Mass murder for territory is what is motivates resistance, countering a project of territorial seizure ongoing since 1948.

  27. Without the Arabs, fighting on the side of the Brits the Ottoman Empire would not be defeated. As usual with the Brits, they make promises they never meant to keep. The Brits promised the Jews of Europe, the Jews of middle were a very small fraction of the population. Many Arab countries gained independence very recently from the French and the Brits between 1950s-1970s.

    “The big achievements of 89 years of Arab independant statehood: 1)extermination/expulsion of subhuman populations of Arab-Lands Jews, Yahdzis, Assyrians, Maronites, Copts, Fur—some of these are still a work in progress. 2)alliance with every mass murdering regime/ideology of the 20th century, including Nazis, Stalinism, Khomenism”

    When else fails why not bring up so many issues and events together so to take the discussion a different way from what is been discussed!

    Today the Coptic population of Egypt is about 10% of the total population. There is still huge number of Jews still living in Morocco. Many Jews left before many Arab countries became independent .The Jewish Agency intimidated many Jews to leave in order to increase the Jewish population. Israel, to this day, keeps bringing thousands of Jews from all over the world. Many American Jews move to Israel every year, even though no one is forcing them to do so.

    But since we are tallying “extermination/expulsion of subhuman populations”, one group that somehow that always ignored by so many ‘loving, compassionate’Zoinest Christians and Zionists alike is the Christians of Palestine whose luck was not much better than the Muslim of Palestine either. Thier many villages, towns, and cities were eradicate along with Muslim ones. Israel was built and continues to be built on the ruins and skeletons of both Muslims and Christians of Palestine. The Christian community in Palestine is disappearing at very alarming pace. But to many Christian supporters of the Jewish state wouldn’t care at all to what happens to their Christian brethrens of Palestine, much less about Muslims.

  28. Population of Palestine

    Total Arabs
    Year Population Muslims Christians Jews Others
    1918 700,000 574,000 70,000 56,000
    92% 8%
    1922 757,182 590,000 73,014 83,794 9,4741
    89% 11%
    1931 1,035,821 759,712 91,398 174,610 10,1012
    83% 17%
    1946 1,972,560 1,203,780 145,060 608,230 15,4903
    69% 31%

    1. Government of Palestine (British Mandate Government) Statistical Abstracts of Palestine, 1941, p.12
    2. Government of Palestine (British Mandate Government) Statistical Abstracts of Palestine, 1941, p.12
    3. Appendix 1 to Report of Sub-Committee 1, Official Records of 2nd Session of General Assembly, Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question, p.

  29. Half of the Copts of Egypt have fled for their lives since 1990, Allah be praised. Of 265,000 1950 Moroccan Jews, eight thousand remain. Three million were killed in the no-we-Muslims-can’t-live-with-Hindus partition of India, three India-Pakistan wars have been fought, and last week the peace-loving Pakistanis shot up Mumbai. Need I mention the London Underground?

    Pakistanis are as bad as Arabs. The Arabs ought to love them, but can’t because they’re too black.

    The era of Arab states is ending. It was a failure. An expanding power, probably India but perhaps Iran, will conquer their territories and settle its own surplus population in them. Arabs will revert to sleeping in ditches on the outskirts of town, molesting pubescent children, and stealing hubcaps—the activities provide the greatest boost to Arab Honor. Peacable, constructive, neighborly….will never happen.

  30. seeing as how india seems to have hitched its wagon to the falling israeli american star, and seeing as how china can buy oil faster than israeli america can steal it, it seems unlikely that india’s gonna have much success in the long run.

    apparently india’s being groomed as israel’s new protector, in anticipation of america’s collapse once it’s looted by oligarchs who see the peak oil handwriting on the wall… another exercise in futility.

    of course, it may turn out that israeli american nuke primacy is the real deal, and we can do a nuke first strike on russia and china.

    then everything will be okay.
    .

    from the council on foreign relations foreign affairs March/April 2006…

    “the sort of missile defenses that the United States might plausibly deploy would be valuable primarily in an offensive context, not a defensive one — as an adjunct to a U.S. first-strike capability, not as a standalone shield. If the United States launched a nuclear attack against Russia (or China), the targeted country would be left with a tiny surviving arsenal — if any at all. At that point, even a relatively modest or inefficient missile-defense system might well be enough to protect against any retaliatory strikes, because the devastated enemy would have so few warheads and decoys left.”

    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060301faessay85204-p0/keir-a-lieber-daryl-g-press/the-rise-of-u-s-nuclear-primacy.html

  31. Making a statement does not make a fact. Egypt has a population of about 78,887,007 in 2006 .10% is Christians, 9% copts.9percentage of 78,887,007 is about 8millions, so 4 millions Copts were forced out of Egypt. Somehow eight thousand Jews remain in Morocco is a mystry! Morocco gained independence from France on March 2, 1956.

    Once again, you bring another issue another group another people in the mix, in a loop like fashion, what is next!

    Again, you find it very convenient to not mention the millions of Muslims who were murdered by the Hindus mobs. Moreover, once again, the Brits have a hand in this affair too. Also, absent the mention of the attacks on Indian Christians by the Hindus extremist in the ‘largest democracy’! If you are so truly concerned about the Christians of Egypt, should not you also be as well concerned about the ones in India. But an intelginet person would not just take the news headlines or what he is fed true the special interest group controlled idiot box.Questions such as who benefits from clashes between Muslims and Christians,Muslims and Hindus ,and who could be truly behind such activities, and accept the as usual suspect.
    Role of Alleged CIA Asset in Mumbai Attacks Being Downplayed
    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/articles/2008/12/10/hammond_ibrahim_role_mumbai_downplayed.htm
    India uncovers Hindu terror group that carried out bombings blamed on Islamists
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/india-uncovers-hindu-terror-group-that-carried-out-bombings-blamed-on-islamists-14076306.html

    “In 2002, other elements came out of Godhra, showing us how different today’s Gujarat is from its own history. This time Godhra was the flashpoint not for rural protest against tyranny, but for the forces of Hindu fascism. A disputed train fire that killed fifty-eight people (most of whom were activists of the Hindu Right) led to a massive pogrom against impoverished Muslim families and modestly well-off Muslim merchants. Even the normally reticent Human Rights Watch could not hold back, and its report’s title revealed not only the anger of the investigators but also their own principle finding, “We have no orders to save you” State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat (April 2002). The Hindu Right let loose its warriors who killed two thousand people and displaced several thousand more. The state apparatus either stood by or actively participated in the torment. Investigators who traced the line of violence routinely met people who told them, “They killed my whole family.” The carnage was ghastly. Historian Tanika Sarkar wrote of a “breathless climate of terror,” as people fled their homes for poorly managed relief camps, afraid not only of the organized mob but also of the police. People couldn’t sleep, afraid that their tormentors would come again. Chief Minister Narendra Modi came to one area and told the terrified residents, “You will be taken care of.” The language chills: he might have meant that the state will protect them, or that it would punish them. ..http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad11072008.html

    Then, you show your true colour as the degenerate person you are when you resort to using degenerate terms and name-calling. Your argument is a prime example of garbage in garbage out.

  32. Morocco is Berber, not Arab. The other surviving middle-eastern remnant Jewish community is in Iran, also not Arab. The Arabs states have achieved the Nazi dream—100% free of Jews.

    Of course, that still leaves them with some Christians or Shia or Sunni or Alawites or Druze or homosexuals or immodest women, or people who follow their religious consciences away from Islam to mass murder, Allah be praised. Then, there are all of the clan and caste grudes to settle, and etc etc etc. Don’t look for any sudden outbreak of peace in Dar al Islam.

    In keeping with the Muslim intellectual commitment to self-delusion, Muslims assure themselves that the decline of American power will be a good thing for them. In fact, the dominant Anglo-American entente is opposed to colonialization and demands that the natives be paid for the extraction of their natural resources. Chinese hegemony (see: Tibet) will come with no such niceties. If you think that the Chinese are as awed by Allah-Mohammed as you are, think again. They’re killing the Muslims of western China and replacing them with Han Chinese, as you read these words.

    However, no one expects Arabs to connect with earthly realities any time soon. For sixty years, the Arabs of Palestine have expended all of their effort and energy towards killing Israelis and extracting empty promises of aid from a series of outside players, with no real stake in the outcome of their war. They might’ve had a decent life, if they had accepted the geographic truth, that Israel is next-door and Iran is far away. The road to peace and prosperity runs through Tel Aviv. It is a road that the Arabs will never take.

    And here’s another truth: stupidity and malice do not make an attractive or sympathetic combination.

    1. Morocco is is fact is an Arab state and memeber of the Arab league ,and the majority of the population of mixed ancestory.Also,Iran and Morocco are Muslim countries.You are making so many contradictory statements which the sign of a The majority of Jews left Arab countries on their own.Many chose to move to the US and Europe instead of going to Israel.For over sixty years,Israel extort huge payments from the west in general and the US in particular.

      “Morocco is the third most populous Arab country, after Egypt and Sudan.[28] Most Moroccans are Sunni Muslims of Arab, Berber, or mixed Arab-Berber stock. There is no significant genetic difference between Moroccan Arabs and Moroccan non-Arabs (i.e. Berbers). Thus, it is likely that Arabization was mainly a cultural process without genetic replacement.[29] However, according to the European Journal of Human Genetics, North-Western Africans were genetically closer to Iberians and to other Europeans than to sub-Saharan Africans”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco

    2. Now – if domination of China (and Russia) would be not so good for Arabs, why US/Israel/UK world shadow Govt. is struggling so much for World Domination? Is that for “humanitarian reasons”? The truth is that Tibet is nothing but a Western project to split China (like they did with the USSR) – Tibetans will only do worse in the world without Big China. Same about Taiwan, as soon as it will not be provided favors by the West, once again in an effort to undermine Chine, the “economic miracle” would vanish.
      As a Russian, I would declare myself Chinese any moment, and be speaking that language, as long as that soft of action would be able to present some Force to Stop the West from destroying this Planet.

  33. “In keeping with the Muslim intellectual commitment to self-delusion…”

    yes.

    muslims are convinced they’re an empire now, and when they act, the create their own reality.

    muslims are also engaged in a project to achieve “benevolent global hegemony”, and have demonstrated that benevolence by, so far, causing the needless deaths of maybe a million people.

    .
    ooops! that’s the israeli americans that said all that stuff… i was confused there for a minute.

  34. …not to mention the fact that some of these people seem to have developed a “hitler’s bunker” mentality, which would be okay if they just swallowed their cyanide and croaked…

    …but some of them seem to be intent on taking as many people with them as they can, which, given the size of their nuke arsenals, would be quite a few people.

    but maybe a world without israel is not worth living in, even if you’re not an israeli… i mean, what would we do for entertainment if it werent for our israeli drama queens?

  35. The Humiliation of America :

    “Early Friday morning the secretary of state was considering bringing the cease-fire resolution to a UNSC vote and we didn’t want her to vote for it,” Olmert said. “I said ‘get President Bush on the phone.’ They tried and told me he was in the middle of a lecture in Philadelphia. I said ‘I’m not interested, I need to speak to him now.’ He got down from the podium, went out and took the phone call.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts01142009.html

  36. Tim R is just using the normal jewish version of the ‘tu quoque’ or ‘you too’ argument, which amounts to saying that until the rest of the world has made itself utterly perfect, it has no right to criticise jews for committing genocide, or anything else. This jewish position is known as “tikkun olam” or “a light unto the nations.”

    1. Well – this position is also very dear to any Russian patriot… now, keeping in mind that Ukraine is the homeland of Jews, and that Ukraine is also the homeland to a significant portion of Russian heritage… I can see the pattern.

      Now – West of course is NEVER doing that “you too” argument – of course, when you’re the FIRST to be on the offensive you never have to resort to “you too”.

  37. As an American Jew living in France, I have never had a problem disassociating myself from Zionism and the State of Israel. I suppose this stemmed from my immigrant grandparents who came to the United States opposed to the whole idea of political Zionism representing the Jewish people. Let’s not forget a not so small detail: the political elite running the State of Israel are a bunch of right wing reactionaries no different than the Bush crowd in the United States. Their mission, irrespective of colonizing Palestine, is to dismantle the Israel welfare state andn make life comfortable for the rich.

  38. There is sufficent difference between Arabs and Berbers for there to be conflict in Algeria between them. You remember Algeria— that’s the one where the expulsion of the entire Catholic population was going to usher in a Golden Age of Allah Truth and Justice.

    1. JJDoyle,
      Has Tim R handed off the baton to you? Are you the new “token Israeli defender” assigned to pitch out horse manure on this site to confuse what is essentially a matter of uncivilized conduct on the part of Israel? If you are, I guess that your sponsors have decided to replace a well meaning schlub with a racist momser. Welcome aboard.

  39. If “racist” means, a person who denies the exceptionalism and entitlement of the Master Arab Race, I’m good with that. If “racist” means, an Arab who accepts the homage of inferior conquered peoples—like Pakistanis—who abandoned their graves of their own ancestors in order to worship the Arab god who lives in Mecca, while still holding the Pakistanis in contempt—–sorry, wrong number.

  40. “There is sufficent difference between Arabs and Berbers “,so what!In pervious cvomment it was Morocco,now it is Algeria.What next,Libya,Tunisia,or Egypet all have some Berbers.

    Algeria was under French control for over 150 yeears,both Berbers and Arabs fought side by side against the French.As in the case with colonists,they ruled by divide and conqure.To this day,France thinks is still has the right to decide the fate of elections in Algeria,Morocco,Tunisia,and many countries in Africa.What is giong in Alegria has no bearing whatsover on the issue here.But you continue ,in a slippery manner,to switch the subject matter in totaly different way.

    Your conceren for other groups is totally contrived.

    “A student from Germany is set to be deported Friday, after the Interior Ministry determined that she was doing missionary work…

    .. Interior Ministry spokeswoman Sabine Haddad said Ludwig was being deported because she had not arranged her residency status. However, the head of the Population Administration’s central region, Elinor Golan, sent two letters to Ludwig’s lawyer stating that Ludwig’s repeated requests for residency status had been denied because she was “doing missionary work.”

    Michael Decker, Ludwig’s lawyer, said a hearing held on her case in 2004 in the Interior Ministry was a “humiliating religious interrogation,” including asking whether she believed Jesus was the messiah”

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/988168.html

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