The U.S. militaryindustrialcongressional complex has stumbled upon yet another gonzo way to turn huge masses of people against the United States Government — and "we the people," because "we" support it.
Piggy-backed on the chronic collateral murder of innocent men, women and children in foreign lands by illegal — not to mention mistaken and inexact — drone attacks, this one is really impressive:
FERYAL ALI GAUHAR: "…the base for the drones, where they’re housed before they are automated, is in Pakistan…. I just happened to stumble across a contractor-and that’s not the Blackwater contractor-the contractor who built the base… he was there at the time of the flooding… he actually mentioned to me that the River Indus… was breached on the left bank deliberately in order to protect the base, which is on the right bank. And the breaching caused, consequentially, the inundation of an entire district, which resulted in the displacement of millions, not thousands, but millions, because we have 170 million people in the country, and this particular district is one of the most densely populated…"
AMY GOODMAN: "And this is a base that is used, run by US military, to run its drone attacks?"
FERYAL ALI GAUHAR: Oh, absolutely…. –Activists Go on Trial in Nevada for Protesting Obama Admin Drone Program
Breached the river bank to save the drone base. Yeah, figures. After all, it's Pakistan and Pakistan is just another pawn for the U.S. government's "war of terror."
Meanwhile back here in the 'homeworld', National Guard holds a "live fire exercise" at Camp Williams and sets off a "small brush fire" that rapidily grows to a major range fire and burned down the once nifty little berg of Herriman, Utah. Yup.
Doesn't matter where one might be around/or near our horribly suffering world, the U.S. military is gonna comprehensively mess up your day AND your neighborhood.
My, my – – – such negativity!
But also absolute truth (if a tad understated), n'est-ce pas?
Oui!
But hey L. REICHARD WHITE , pick up the ball and run with it ! No one here's gonna check the facts , lol…and once it hits the echo chamber , you got yourself an editorial !
pathetic .
So, R/T you apparently think drone attacks, <href="http://www.democracynow.org/2010/9/21/tariq_ali_on_the_obama_syndrome"> killing innocent men women and children in foreign lands are OK, I guess?
I see you're at it again, R/T.
What, you ask? Why tripping over your own shoelaces while warning my loafers are untied.
Let me make that a little more clear for you, since, IIRC, you have a bit of trouble with analogies:
You suggest folks won't check their sources, which, incidentally, I supply, but you don't.
Why should I believe your unsupported opinion over that of Democracy Now's highly respected Amy Goodman and her sources? Hm?
Oh …I thought the article was iomplying that Pakistani People got flooded by an INTENTIONAL BREACH , to specifically save the drone facility . Wasn't that the point of the article White ?
But rather deal with my statement , you're gonna skip to the actual use of the drones ?
BTW , "my opinion " is not opinion IT IS FACT , if you would have bothered to look into that breaching , beyond your biased nose .
And of course the sin article [if could even be called that , for all you have done , without any research or cross-checking of oinformation , merely PARROTED the OPINION of Amy Goodman "and her source " [SINGULAR ] .
Who are you kidding White ????
…and NO , you don't check your sources , White …. you merely parrot the links that others supply you . If you did infact do any checking to even a minimal degree , you wouldn't have put your name to what you tried to peddle as a truth . Your "source " is ….uh , there's a guy in Pakistan who says the Indus was breachhed , where it was beached to save a US drone facility , and that's bullsheet , pure and simple .
So now , rather than address that B.S> rumor once exposed , presumptiously you're goonna transfer a moral trip on me , over the actual use of drones ? Which btw , I've made no statement on , one way or the other .
I addressed the main issue in the previous post. Your lack of sources — other than your own imagination.
And the next one.
So, do you or do you not approve of U.S. drone attacks that admittedly kill innocent men, women and children in foreign lands?
I find it amusing , people like you attempting to defend the demagogues and idealogues of the media , when they bite the hook and get punked by a "less trhan true story " …soley for the sake of their own opinionation . . Amy Goodman ?? lol…Rush Limbaugh ….Lou Dobbs …Arizona's Gov …they all get punked , bite the hook and then look like fools in the morning ….but atleast they're getting paid for it ..lol…are you White ? The great irony is , all it takes is just a bit of effort to ferret out the truth …but hey ideology comes first eh White ? And the sycophants suck it up as bible .
It's getting embarrassing that you keep tripping over your own shoelaces. So, where are your sources?
You claim I parrot other folks. Indeed I do. If I wasn't there, I, like you, have no other option.
The difference between us is that you don't bother to cite your sources – – – if you have any. So you parrot only your imagination.
And no matter how poor you claim my sources are, they're almost certainly superior to your imagination.
And, as it turns out, you're certainly correct about most western media. They're complicit with the militaryindustrialcongressional complex.
Here's a little of the truth I've managed to ferret out (no imagination) – – –
–Sen. Gary Hart: U.S. Media in cahoots with CIA, White House
–The History of U.S. War Propaganda SYNOPSIS
And to get just an idea of how twisted Western news, as you suggest, really is, you can find a list of the projects and personnel involved in Uncle Scam's "info wars." Here:
http://www.psywarrior.com/links.html
Now R/T, while I sometimes find your imagination fetching, I don't find it convincing. So I showed you my sources, how about if you show me yours?
With a little more experience, you may become a passable opponent.
By the way, Amy Goodman at Democracy Now! marches to a different highly independent drummer. If you want to sharpen your weapons, watch her show for awhile and try to shoot her work down. You can find her here: http://www.democracynow.org/
There are a number of sources , other than Amy , to confirm or discredit the accusation . One is simply to access the actual news sources of Pakistan itself . NOT democracy now ,org / You own a computer, and you can type , surely you have the same capability that I have to crosscheck info.Which infact is EXACTLY what I did before opening my mouth . The response of the first post on this blog PROVES my point . There is much , that I concur with on that blog , such as the CIA's implication with Allende / Chile / Pinochet , etc . These issues are CONFIRMED , no argument there .
What I find sad about the internet is , that people , no matter who , no matter what the cause , or ideology , refer to " links " , as if they are absolute , simply because they are links , surely you are wise enough to realize this. You can argue all day with 9/11 Trufers , and they will refer to link after link, as if they are proof positive that what they are claiming is "true /possible / credible etc " .
White , you can google ANY subject , ANY issue on ANY person or event , and find literally thousands of "links " , and on either side of the issue involved . INDEED our very statements being made as we speak will turn up there ….does that lend to any credibility o either of our parts ? lol….what good would it do me to listen to Amy's show , with theforeknowledge that she is willing to compromise ethics in order to further a political or ideological point ??
So the aspersion is cast , on this particular subject , thus conclusions arrived at in error , and that is totally avoidable . By my criticism, I am not endorsing or condoning US foreign policy , good or bad , I base my positions on any subject on KNOWN facts, not innuendo , rumor or unreliable sources . It is fact for instance that many Pakistanis suspect collusion now AND in the past , during monsoon flooding , between the interests of rich landowners and the actions of the Pakistani Govt .regarding intentional breaching . But in the case we are discussing ? It is rumor and nothing more , nor is it the prevailing belief of the affected Pakistanis themselves .
One guy (R/T) who's not in Pakistan — and doesn't cite anyone who is — is a credible source ???
For your part, R/T, you make very specific claims that undermine your credibility. For example, "The "drone facility ? played no part whatsoever in the Pakistan Government's decision where to breach the banks."
How do you know that? Your imagination? Or do you have an inside source? Be specific please.
If you're right — and this is just a rumor that the Pakistanis (59% of whom now believe the U.S. is their enemy) believe — and the "rich landowners," etc. are responsible instead of the U.S. military establishment, then, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to back up your claims.
It could be that you're correct in this case, R/T, but don't expect me to do your homework for you.
How do I know that ? By investigating YOUR source which is Amy and HER source which was who ? And she just "stumbled acroiss this guy ? Also Amy is unclear as to whether SHE herself , or someone else "stumbled across this guy . That was the first warninjg to check further .I then went to the pakistani National News, and read the complaints by the Pakistanis who were actually affected by the breach , and they don't even mention the base , nor do they even infer , they are however uite suspicious of the rich landowners whose farm and grazing lands may havce benefited by that breaching .
So the whole deal about whether it was a matter of the drone base , is nothing but SPIN / OPINION/ and INFERENCE , none of which was based in fact . But again , you choose to deflect away from the issue , which is this thread , NOT the morality of the US using drone attacks , and NOT how many Pakistanis consider the US as an enemy , if that was your intention to address those seperate issues , then that is what you should have stated , rather than a baseless rumor that the river bank was breached due to that US drone facility .
BTW White , I dont allow ANYONE to do my homework for me , something you should consider before committing your view to print , and purporting it as truth . Now if you want to know what PAKISTANIS are saying and thinking , I suggest rather than depending on Amy and Democracy Now , you should go to Pakistani National news sources , which btw are in the public domain , for anyone willing to look beyond their nose . But I'm feeling gracious this evening , therefore I'll give you a little hint , start by typing in Pakistan , and then hit search , using whatever search engine you choose , eventually that will bring you to that country's national news sources .
Look R/T, IIRC, you may have some direct pipeline to what happens in some mid-east countries. You may even be VERY well connected. But as you point out, there's a bunch of BS on the internet.
How do the readers here know you're not one of the BS sources?
I've done everything but offer you a treat to get you off the porch.
Where do you get YOUR information? Put up or shut up.
By the way, R/T, what is your honest opinion about the morality of U.S. drone attacks?
White , thats not an a-typical question /statement coming from a person like you . It really exposes ignorance in psuedo-intellectuals like yourself . What did I tell you last everning ? , I even gave you a hint , but that too , seems to have been over your head . YOU WANNA KNOW , whats going on in Pakistan ? , READ what is being said in their own national newspapers . THERE'S NO "PIPELINE " !
And it's NOT '"MY INFORMATION " , and NO , I'm not "WELL CONNECTED" ….are you serious ? Good grief man , don';t you possess an ounce of common sense ? Is all of your knowledge dependent upon "a link " that someone must provide you ? That's pathetic , you are ripe to be led ….lol…I can provide you a link that the earth is FLAT !
Ah, look R/T, I said you spoke as if you were well connected. For all I knew, maybe you were.
I don't think anyone takes a link as gospel, but the idea of reporting is to get someone as close to the event you're looking at as possible. Since you refuse to cite anyone, people won't take you seriously.
I just don't understand your reluctance.
By the way, a blog is a blog, not a deeply researched policy paper or anything like that. If a blog entry gets attention, that's the best that can be hoped for. A good discussion can bring out further information, etc.
By the way, I don't claim to always be "correct." But If I'm not, you have to convince me. Naked claims simply won't do it.
Hey White , are the words INVESTIGATE / LOOK INTO / RESEARCH /CROSS-CHECK /SCRUTINIZE , alien to you ? Put up or shut up ?
NO , you get up off your lazy arse , I told you how to get there [ as if you needed to know ] but I humored your facetiousness .You go check out the national rags of that country , and read about the flood , and you'll not find a thing about Amy's B.S. breaching story .But I guess it escapes you that her spin is simply to support her opinion of drone attacks ….anbd that's fine …until you lie .
"Hey White , are the words INVESTIGATE / LOOK INTO / RESEARCH /CROSS-CHECK /SCRUTINIZE , alien to you ? Put up or shut up ? " –R/T
They're not at all foreign to me, but clearly they are to you. If it's as easy as you say, why haven't you put up – – – a link to your source(s)?
It's becoming painfully clear you don't have any sources.
So flail away, R/T. You seem to have dwindled away from a Chiuaua to a mini-Yorki.
Careful you don't get stepped on.
And now to answer your question ,
"what is my honest opinion on the morality of U.S. Drone attacks" ?
Let's start with the premise , in which I firmly believe , and that is, that ALL war is IMMORAL . However since we are engaged in one , then as long as every effort is made to limit civilian casualties , I say let 'em fly . As long as the mujahadeen are crossing borders with the intention to kill our soldiers , as long as Al Queda plots bombings in the west , as long as the Taliban INTENTIONALLY TARGET innocent civilians , most of which happen to be muslims , I have no problem at all …that is the nature of war . D-DAY WW2 , involved killing many French civilians , not intentionally but inevitably . In War , "intention " is the dividing factor , and although you may think otherwise , we are not living in a moralistic Utopia .The best choices we will ever be given , will always be the lesser of two evils . And it will remain such , as long as men have free will .
Well, R/T, I appreciate your honesty.
Unfortunately you seem to believe a large portion of the U.S. Government propaganda.
The real question is, since Uncle hasn't declared war (the Constitution, remember) what are U.S. soldiers doing violating the sovereignty of foreign nations and killing their citizens every day? Isn't that why folks here were so ticked off at the 911 attacks?
Oh, that's right, American exceptionalism. You know, "Do what I say, not what I do."
But seriously R/T, you are, sadly a poster child for victims of U.S. Government propaganda.
They have all those "cyber warriors" – – – and the U.S. media filling your head with fairy tales and scary stories. It's not really your fault.
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