Netanyahu’s speech in front of Congress was truly extreme. He said that Judea and Samaria (the Israeli phrase for the West Bank and occupied territories) belongs to Israel. He said the entirety of Jerusalem belongs to the Israelis. He said Israeli settlements are permanent. He said Israeli military occupation along the Jordan River is long term. He said expelled Palestinians will never be allowed to return.
He also mentioned an eventual Palestinian state…but considering what he said about the borders of Israel, one can only assume he means for that state must be to the east of the Jordan River.
This is the recipe for continued conflict. It is a view of the issue far outside what the vast majority of the world views as a viable solution. And the United States Congress applauded every word.
Israel is just like the Ulster Plantation set up under King James I & VI in the early 17th century. The techniques are practically identical. The results are well-known.
Good analogy. America is their British army.
the blind leading the blind
The troll leading the troll.
A troll because I disagree with your misguided , biased , misinformed view ? So be it . Try being less a parrot and more inquisitive of the world around you .
it is hopeless for a people as weak and helpless as the Palestinians to hope for an end of the occupation of the West Bank; when the there is no end in sight to the occupation of the American government by Israel either.
"We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely
Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by
psychological warfare and population explosion. We Palestinians will
take over everything, including all of Jerusalem." – Yasser Arafat,
former leader of the PLO.
…………"weak and helpless palestinians " is it ?
Netanyahu sated what the world needed to hear , there will be no negotiation with an entity sworn to Israel's destruction , Jerusalem , all of it will ,remain under the sovereignty of Israel. If the palestinians were interesyted in peace , and not obsessed with destroying the Jewish state , there would have been peace and quite possibly a palestinian state , THAT IS OBVIOUS .Palestinian s , those "weak and helpless " people have bombed their way out of Oslo , and every other brokered peace negotiations . Those weak and helpless palestinians will not relinquish the language in the Palestinian National Charter which explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel and removal of the jewish people from the land . So please save tyour tears for those weak and helpless palestinians who teach their children , that paradise awaits all who kill a jewish .
The bombs began after Oslo many months after following an Israeli campaign to destroy the Palestinian prisons and police stations and following also the deaths of over 300 protesters gunned down with helicopter gunships, tanks and infantry. Barak 's government did in the summer of 2000 threaten to bring out the tanks and helicopter gunships and did not disappoint on that score
Frankly, I think that killing this Palestinian state is the best option, as this means that there can be only one final option, the one state solution, and the eventual end of the regime, Israel will die by democracy, if you will..
The palestinians NEVER took the first step , try reading the Oslo agreement , and brush up on your current events regarding those "alleged " 300 deaths .[ just like 500 killed in Jenin ]
Knesset West–er, uh, the U.S. Congress–is "Israeli-occupied territory." Like the U.S. Government in general, it subordinates America's interests to Israel's.
Politicians in the U.S .favor Israel , because their constituents do . Atleast 73% of Americans support the existence of Israel , and thus foreign policy towards Israel reflects that . Dont like it ? Suck it up , that's the way it is .
This is beside the point, the 'existence of Israel' is not at issue. But there is a clear disjunction between US public opinion and the voting patterns of congress critturs, for a very well-known reason, exhaustively documented by Mearsheimer and Walt among many others. The disjunction of which I speak is well illustrated by a collection of independent surveys of US public opinion collected during the attack on Lebanon by Israel in 2006.
* An Aug 3-6 ABC/WaPo poll found that 46% said Israel and Hezbollah were equally to blame for starting the conflict, and another 7% blamed Israel alone. 32% said Israel was using "too much force." 48% said Israel was "not justified in bombing Hezbollah targets located in areas where civilians might be killed or wounded." 54% said Israel "should do more" to avoid casualties. 35% said that "Israel should agree to an immediate, unconditional cease-fire in Lebanon." 35% said that the Lebanon war would "hurt the situation for the US in Iraq."
* A Jul 21-25 CBS/NYT poll found 46% blamed "both sides equally," while 5% blamed "mostly Israel." 40% said that the US should not publicly support either Israel or Hezbollah and should "say and do nothing." 7% favoured criticising Israel and 14% were unsure of what to do. 39% favoured supporting Israel.
* A Jul 21-23 USA Today/Gallup poll found that 38% said they "disapproved of the military action Israel had taken in Lebanon." 65% said that the US should take "neither side" in the conflict. 44% said that they were "very concerned" that events in Lebanon "will increase the likelihood of terrorism against the US." 31% were "somewhat concerned" that the Lebanon war would worsen the US's problem with terrorism.
* In an Aug 11-15 Zogby poll, 52% said the US should remain neutral in the conflict.
* In a Jul 21-24 NBC/WSJ poll, 40% "opposed US military involvement in support of Israel" if the Lebanon war expanded to the point "where Israel is fighting several other nations in the region."
* A Jul 19 CNN poll found that 43% thought that "Israel should agree to a cease-fire as soon as possible."
These are the views of the US public, and they are not reflected in the votes and speeches of congress critturs.
Given the public opinion figures that I cited above, it's very revealing that when Congressman Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) sent a letter to Condoleezza Rice urging her to call for an immediate ceasefire in Lebanon, he was summoned to a meeting with AIPAC representatives to be told that this was "an unacceptable move." (Shmuel Rosner, Haaretz, Aug 10 2006)
I never knew this before, but there is actually a book about "stealth PACs":
Richard H Curtiss, "Stealth PACs: How Israel's American Lobby Seeks to Control US Middle East Policy" (4th ed., Washington DC, American Educational Trust, 1996).
It's part of the state religion to genuflect to Israel. This is helped in part of the Darby heresy that's very powerful in the US south particularly, a completely un-Biblical heresy but one that essentially demands the worship of Israel as part of a scheme to end the world. This naturally is not something that reflects well on the USA. Then there's a sort of secular religion centred around the Holocaust. The Jews were crucified, died and were buried and in the third year rose again to judge the living and the dead. They are naturally the most gifted and enlightened people bringing light to the dark savages of the east. The racism is thinly disguised.
If you think that people should "suck it up" because of this insanity, well, we should also suck it up when religious fundamentalists take over countries and oppose the West on religious grounds.
Those polls do not change the FACT that 73% of Americans support Israel niqnaq . They might not agree with all that Israel does , but they are solidly behind the continued existence of Israel . I realize the historical FACTS of the conflict and the ultimate goal of the Palestinians as they plainly state over and over again, and is written into their covenant and National Charter, falls on deaf ears [like yours ] …and goes down that great memory hole .You ignore these things as if they were meaningless . As for YOUR statement Ricardus , no one "genuflec" as you so missivly state . Yes there are fundamrentalist , but they do not make up anywhere near 73% of Americans , and as you clearly witnessed in the Congress of the U.S. yesterday , Netanyahu got standingf ovations from BOTH sides of the isle . You can mock their religious views all you like , and yers suyck it up , that is the FACT the US will continue to support Israerl , because it is the right thing to do .
I already pointed out that the existence of Israel is not in dispute, it's Israel's conduct that is in dispute, and in fact it's quite clear that a majority of USAians disapprove of Israel's conduct, but the congress critturs are blackmailed by the stranglehold of AIPAC and its three dozen or more 'stealth PACS' into ignoring this. It's surprising actually that only 73% of USAians even support Israel's existence — that means a full 27% agree with Ahmadinejad that it should "vanish from the page of time"
:-)
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian
state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of
Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference
between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for
political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of
a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit
the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism…
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined
borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian,
I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.
However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will
not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." – PLO executive
committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch
newspaper Trouw.
Great, we have a genocidal Zionist thug posting here on antiwar.com.
LOL…..I just quoted the statements of genocidal palestinians , clear and explicit , and you call me a zionist thug ? you're an imbecile .
So , tell me , detractors – what has changed ?
Removing the language in the Palestinian National Charter , calling for Israel's Destruction ,was STEP ONE to be taken by bthe Palestinians in the Oslo Agreement . It was never done , although that was brought before and REJECTED by the Palestinian National Council no less than THREE times . The Hamas Charter RE-ITERATES that same statement .
Ladies and gentleman our newest troll – "Amused".
yea ok andy , I dont tow your line , I disagree with your biased , misinformed , view….and that makes me a troll ? I dont parrot your propaganda , so that makes me a troll ? try learning your subject instead of repeating not what you know , but what you hear , because it is quite obvious you are either ignorant of , or have ignored the facts .
you have offered no rebuttal of my statements , other than merely calling names ….. that's reeeeaaal intelligent Andy .
and you've offered no rebuttal of mine.
I most certainly have niqnaq , I staed that althgough Americans mey disagree with Israel on certain points , and may hold both parties responsible by varying degrees , for the conflict , [which all can be debated ] nonetheless 73% of Americans favor support for Isrtael , and are in favor of Israel's continued existence . This was evident in the Congress with their unanimous applause for Netanyahu 's statement . What you seem to be in denial about is , that the palestrinians are sworn to Israel's destruction , Hamas CAN NOT BRING THEMSELVES to accept the existence of Israel .Fatah is no different , the only difference of their positions is the time frame in which to destroy the Israeli State . This is no secret , it has been stated publicly by both . Do you deny this ? If so I suggest you follow the situation , not by what their leaders state forthe benefit of the ears of the west , but what they are actually saying in arabic to their peoples . If you care to refute this ….please do so .Refute the contents and langugae of the Palestinian National Charter , or the Hamas Charter which are REAL .
do you know what else is REAL?
the amazing disparity between israeli and palestinian deaths on both sides of the conflict. whether you put it in your 'national charter' or not, indiscriminate slaughter is just that. and that's what we oppose here, you twit.
Indiscriminate slaughter ? So the "body count "makes the morals of the issue ? And you call me a twit ? You're a total arsehole . You are against indiscriminate slaughter ? Of WHO , you bloody hypocrite ! The "amazing disparity " is 3 to 1 , not amazing at all , in fact not even surprising when you consider the amount of dead palestinian suicide bombers , accidental suicide explosions , and collateral damage to their own groups .And BTW SCHMUCK , it's not MY charter , and you oughta try an educate yourself a bit and read it , before you go spouting out parroted rhetoric , instead of the facts .
AWESOME spelling!
One poster here mentions , the fundamentalist christians here in this country , while IGNORING that these charters are impregnated with religious license to kill , indeed even the Hezbollah proclaimation . These things are not figments of anyone's imagination , they are confirmed by barbaric actions ,and have been for decades . That is my point ….so refute that if you will .
Nope …..didn't think so . So much for non-biased debate . You have no refute , you have no argument , just your bioased opinions . g'nite …………………..
Amused, I don't quite care about religious/geographical wars, charters, vendettas, or whatnot. I just want to know why any American in their right mind would feel that assisting Israel is even a valid action when America has plenty of problems WITHIN our borders?
That's the question I want answered. Why is America getting caught up in Israel's war when we have our own people to worry about? How about using the funding and aid to help get our fellow Americans back on track?
Why have any allies in the world ? Are you suggesting isolationism ? Should we not have helped the British in WW2 ? America is not getting "caught up " in Israels war . America DID get caught up in Iraq .And Afghanistan after the taliban were ran out . Yes there ARE problems within our borders , also problems without , like Mexico . It is obvious you dont care about such things outside the U.S. and that's your right .Others Do , and that is expressed in foreign policy .We dont have to send grain to India during famines , nor Africa , even North Korea . We sent grain to the USSR during the Cold War .We will not solve all our domestic problems by ignoring international problems . This aint Utopia , nor will it ever be . But you are free to keep your blinders on , just as I am to take mine off . Just like people on this blog are sympathetic to palestinians , I am sympathetic to Israel . Explain that .
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